Profpointy
Legendary Member
don't forget asbestos pants !
Be prepared for an accident
- Thread starter rydabent
- Start date
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don't forget asbestos pants !
berty bassett
Legendary Member
- Location
- I'boro
even though nearly 60 I sometimes go out in a group and push myself as hard as I can , the effort I put in now is as near 100% as it would have been if I was 20 ( though results may be different ) I would think racing cyclists are putting in 100% effort so whats the difference ?
and to say racing drivers wear helmets so why dont normal drivers is taking this to extremes - I do believe speed limits range from 20 to 70 on a normal road - I doubt if you would have much of a winning streak if you was a motor racer sticking within this range . totally missing the point of if there was a shred of evidence that helmets caused injury , insurance companies would pick up on it and refuse payment whenever anyone had an accident wearing one . this has yet again turned into another post being anti helmet and it really shouldn't , if you dont want to wear a helmet then dont , I want to wear one as I feel safer , I wear bright colours as I think it help me feel safe , I have lights as that also makes me feel safe . there are people out there who wear black with no lights at night and no helmet who feel just as safe as I do and good luck to them - their choice
and to say racing drivers wear helmets so why dont normal drivers is taking this to extremes - I do believe speed limits range from 20 to 70 on a normal road - I doubt if you would have much of a winning streak if you was a motor racer sticking within this range . totally missing the point of if there was a shred of evidence that helmets caused injury , insurance companies would pick up on it and refuse payment whenever anyone had an accident wearing one . this has yet again turned into another post being anti helmet and it really shouldn't , if you dont want to wear a helmet then dont , I want to wear one as I feel safer , I wear bright colours as I think it help me feel safe , I have lights as that also makes me feel safe . there are people out there who wear black with no lights at night and no helmet who feel just as safe as I do and good luck to them - their choice
I posted a link to one study:
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7025438/
Here's another couple of papers in the bmj
https://www.bmj.com/content/321/7268/1055
https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/9/9/e027845 (https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/bmjopen/9/9/e027845.full.pdf)
Another piece of research by Norwegian doctors
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00701-024-06294-6
I have been unable to find any medical research that does *not* come to the conclusion that cycle helmets reduce injury.
matticus
Guru
Lots of people have made it compulsory for other people in their limited scope. e.g. cycling clubs, workplaces, schools ...
I'm pretty sure those people would support national compulsion.
Andy in Germany
Guru
- Location
- Rottenburg am Neckar
Alex321
Guru
- Location
- South Wales
What makes you "pretty sure" about that?
matticus
Guru
Just a gut feeling, based on how they like to force others to act as they do. Interestingly they are very unwilling to have a calm face-to-face discussion with you, but give them a vote - so that they can control you without saying it to your face - and they happily band together to stamp out the minority view.
What's your view of those people? (and are you one of them?)
Profpointy
Legendary Member
It's surely harder to accept that those who make something compulsory where they have power don't believe in wider compulsion
Speaking for myself I've heard a significant number or people call for compulsory cycle helmets, cyclists and non cyclists alike. One argument I've heard more than once is "we [car drivers] have to wear seat belts so cyclists should wear helmets"
I have very frequently heard calls for compulsory cycling insurance
I've also regularly heard non-participants have strong opinions about banning things like caving or winter hillwalking.
Recently there has been a call, seemingly with some support, for kitchen knives not to have sharp points. Someone who evidently doesn't cook wants rules to limit those who do.
I've even heard someone angrily stating "they should have had 'aqualungs' " after some cavers were drowned in a flood. Admittedly this was one staggeringly ill-informed and / or stupid person, but it does illustrate people having strongly held opinions on compulsion for things they know absolutely nothing about
People seem to like restrictions or banning stuff providing they don't participate, and some actual participants seem to enjoy restrictions out of some kind of elitism. Seems to be a failing of human nature sadly
classic33
Leg End Member
Yes - the counterargument to this is that it's very hard for a 6 year old to take out an insurance policy.
Actually they had conversations with top chefs who agreed that long kitchen knives don't need a razor sharp point. I did learn (on no such thing as a fish I think) recently that the development of rounded knives likely came about through a desire to stop people injuring themselves when eating.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2005/may/27/health.politics
Oldhippy
Cynical idealist
The general take in 'developed' countries these days is risk averse to the point of lunacy. Utterly ridiculous and the fear of litigation. I for one will carry on as usual. I will certainly not be bullied, shamed or succumb to being moan at my 'lack' of personal preservation because someone thinks they can make 'safer' by dressing like a Christmas tree and 'specialist' head wear to ride my transport. As I've said before, when drivers wear fire suits, crash helmets and everyone who ventures outside wear special clothing to compensate for a driver who may not be paying enough attention I will rethink.
I don't think anyone would necessarily disagree with this.
Personally I'll continue to wear a helmet as previously one stopped me getting a far more serious facial injury and my BiL has had his head protected twice from more serious injury. I'll continue to wear reflective / high vis stuff as I'd rather that a driver had a better chance to see me and give no excuse for reduced damages or sentencing in the unlikely event that someone knocks me off my bike.
Andy in Germany
Guru
- Location
- Rottenburg am Neckar
Exactly, and I'd add all cars should have large reflective stripes on the front, back, and sides so we can see them.
mjr
Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
- Location
- mostly Norfolk, sometimes Somerset
Thompson, Rivara and Thompson reviewing largely their own (flawed) work? Really? Still in 2025, that's all you got? I don't like to dismiss things based on the researchers, but I'll make an exception for the parents of the "90% reduction in head injury" BS: they really are not neutral or objective AFAICT, and their work has been rebutted almost as many times as Jake Olivier's, so I'm not going to take the time to do it again myself, and just point you at one of many: https://www.cyclehelmets.org/1243.html
That's only the Hospital Episode Statistics, not even all reported road casualties, so it ignores the question of whether helmet use makes cyclists more likely to end up in hospital, plus there's not enough data published to verify its conclusions, plus it cites Thompson, Rivara and Thompson uncritically, so its conclusions should be regarded with suspicion IMO.
As well as only being hospital data, only half the collisions in the dataset have helmet use recorded, plus it finds a reduction in facial injuries which makes me doubt it. How many full-face helmets do you see cyclists using? I can't remember the last time I saw one not on an MTB track.
Hospital data again, not population data, again, plus cites Thompson Rivara Thompson and Olivier, so I doubt how neutral a position they started from.
None of the research you link comes to the conclusion that cycle helmets reduce injury at a population level. They're mostly studying the wrong question, an easy win, but beside the point. The stuff you link shows that if you have a bad enough crash to end up at a hospital, or in some cases only that you end up at one with a head injury, then use of a cycle helmet will probably mean a reduced injury severity. That's not the debate. It's whether increased helmet use means a reduced chance of injury, overall, on average, at a population level.
Think of it like this: would you want to use a helmet if it halves the severity of a head injury but makes you ten times more likely to suffer one? The research you're looking at is only considering the first half of that question.
Andy in Germany
Guru
- Location
- Rottenburg am Neckar
