BB removal help

[Crackle]

It's been a while since I've needed to remove a BB, in fact the last one was an adjustable type but this one is getting stiff and needs fixing.

So looking at the picture below I thought I had a standard cartridge type BB, so stick on the notched BB tool and turn, left side normal thread, right drive side, reverse thread.

Two things are puzzling me:-

1) Neither side will turn and I've put some force into it with a long bar socket extension.
2) On the spindle appears to be a nut, you can see the flats in the picture and a thread on the spindle, is this significant, do I in fact have some other type of BB?

Advice on removing it, much appreciated.

 

[I like Skol]

Looks like a standard cartridge BB to me? Are you sure of the thread directions, despite doing the same job myself a couple of months ago I can't remember. It might need more force than you expect, especially if it has been in there a long time (haven't they always, mine was 15 yrs). If you are sure of the thread direction (checking against the new replacement is the best way to be sure) then you just need to man up and flex those puny arms a bit more!!!

 

[compo]

I removed one recently and I used a two foot long torque wrench and almost had to place my whole weight against it to get it started. You may find it helps to do the drive side (chainwheel side) first as that will be a metal insert and will take a bit more welly. I don't know about the nut and thread though.

 

[tyred]

The thread direction is correct with the left hand thread on the drive side. Probably just very tight or possibly corroded threads.

 

[Crackle]

Ok, so it looks like the standard cartridge type, I thought it was but when things don't go like you expect, then you begin to wonder.

More welly: I need to find a way of holding the tool on then, I think I can extend the lever arm. As suggested, I'll move to the drive side as well as I was afraid of wrecking the plastic. Might see if I can find a bolt to screw into the spindle and hold the tool on, otherwise I'll struggle to lever and hold.

It's about 14 years old, which is a good life but that's probably why I can't get it off.

 

[compo]

If you are fitting a new BB it doesn't matter if you wreck the plastic side as you will receive a new one in the box with the new cartridge.

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

So looking at the picture below I thought I had a standard cartridge type BB, so stick on the notched BB tool and turn, left side normal thread, right drive side, reverse thread.

Two things are puzzling me:-

1) Neither side will turn and I've put some force into it with a long bar socket extension.
2) On the spindle appears to be a nut, you can see the flats in the picture and a thread on the spindle, is this significant, do I in fact have some other type of BB?

Advice on removing it, much appreciated.

Those thread directions assume it is not an Italian or French BB.

That thread on spindle and nut with flats is NOT typical on a cartridge BB ime, the "nut" looks awfully like the cone of a cup and cone bearing often found on hubs. It might be significant, in that usual cartridge BBs don't have such a thing, and further typical cup and cone BB's don't either because they have the cones inboard as part of the spindle so loosening the cup releases the bearings. IF this is in reverse given the nut looks like a cone then one might have to release the cone first, since by deduction the cup being inboard then releasing/pulling the cup would simply squish the ball bearings and stress the BB shell threading!

As you can see I am just thinking aloud based on what I can see - and I am saying this because while ruining an old BB is no big deal there is a chance that you could destroy the BB shell/threading. But then it is probably just the way one side is made, is the other side the same? If not, it should be ok.

Pic of typical internals:

 

[jay clock]

from that pic I would be moving the lever anticlockwise as you look at the bike. So normal way.

One suggestion if you have a vice or a Workmate, is to place the wrench or whatever you have, into the vice arms, holding the tool upwards. The carefully slot the bb onto the took. This allows you to get nice firm insertion of the tool into the bb. Then turn the frame (using brain to make sure you are going the right way) which gives a lot more leverage.

 

[jay clock]

ok, just found a lengthy and useful thread here. http://www.lfgss.com/thread19194.html


One partic one that stood out was this which describes my vice idea better



Best method for removing a seized bottom bracket: you will need a bench vice, bb tool (one designed for use with an adjustable, eg Park BBT-2), graphite penetrating oil (wd40 if not) and a friend with a keen sense of balance.

1) spray penetrating oil liberally into bb shell. leave for an hour or so.
2) mount bb tool securely in bench vice so the spined section is facing upwards
3) place frame so that the seized bb cup aligns with the upright bb tool (eg so the frame is lying horizontal/parrallel to the ground)
4) Get friend to climb up and stand on the other side of the bb shell, thus applying the requisite downwards force to keep the frame in place.
5) Rotate the entire frame, this will give you a shedload of leverage to remove the cup. If this doesn't work nothing will.

If you don't have a lot of space around the bench vice you may need to just use half-turns and remount the frame several times, at least until if is free enough to use an adjustable.

 

[avsd]

Lots of penetrating oil - leave it overnight. If it is badly rusted you might need an engineering shop to apply heat to the frame get it extracted. I had to do this with a old MTB. Best of luck

 

[Crackle]

Those thread directions assume it is not an Italian or French BB.

That thread on spindle and nut with flats is NOT typical on a cartridge BB ime, the "nut" looks awfully like the cone of a cup and cone bearing often found on hubs. It might be significant, in that usual cartridge BBs don't have such a thing, and further typical cup and cone BB's don't either because they have the cones inboard as part of the spindle so loosening the cup releases the bearings. IF this is in reverse given the nut looks like a cone then one might have to release the cone first, since by deduction the cup being inboard then releasing/pulling the cup would simply squish the ball bearings and stress the BB shell threading!

As you can see I am just thinking aloud based on what I can see - and I am saying this because while ruining an old BB is no big deal there is a chance that you could destroy the BB shell/threading. But then it is probably just the way one side is made, is the other side the same? If not, it should be ok.

The thinking you've outlined was what was going through my head. Except, it's a Specialized mtn bike, so unlikely to be French or Italian, the rest though, followed my thoughts but, and you've identified the crux, the other side looks normal. If I therefore have to release that cone, I have no idea how it's meant to be done as there is nothing on the other side, besides the spindle, to brace against, even if I had a tool to get in there, which I don't. So whilst I haven't discounted that cone, logically I can't see how it might fit into releasing the BB and am thinking it's some Specialized BB peculiarity from the era (1997 ish).

ok, just found a lengthy and useful thread here. http://www.lfgss.com/thread19194.html


One partic one that stood out was this which describes my vice idea better



Best method for removing a seized bottom bracket: you will need a bench vice, bb tool (one designed for use with an adjustable, eg Park BBT-2), graphite penetrating oil (wd40 if not) and a friend with a keen sense of balance.

1) spray penetrating oil liberally into bb shell. leave for an hour or so.
2) mount bb tool securely in bench vice so the spined section is facing upwards
3) place frame so that the seized bb cup aligns with the upright bb tool (eg so the frame is lying horizontal/parrallel to the ground)
4) Get friend to climb up and stand on the other side of the bb shell, thus applying the requisite downwards force to keep the frame in place.
5) Rotate the entire frame, this will give you a shedload of leverage to remove the cup. If this doesn't work nothing will.

If you don't have a lot of space around the bench vice you may need to just use half-turns and remount the frame several times, at least until if is free enough to use an adjustable.

That technique sounds good and an alternative to me finding a bolt, which I don't think I have, to hold the tool in place whilst I lever. I just have the room around the vice to do that.

 

[fatblokish]

[/quote]

That technique sounds good and an alternative to me finding a bolt, which I don't think I have, to hold the tool in place whilst I lever. I just have the room around the vice to do that.[/quote]

Can you place a quick-release skewer through the tool instead of a bolt?

 

[simon.r]

The thinking you've outlined was what was going through my head. Except, it's a Specialized mtn bike, so unlikely to be French or Italian, the rest though, followed my thoughts but, and you've identified the crux, the other side looks normal. If I therefore have to release that cone, I have no idea how it's meant to be done as there is nothing on the other side, besides the spindle, to brace against, even if I had a tool to get in there, which I don't. So whilst I haven't discounted that cone, logically I can't see how it might fit into releasing the BB and am thinking it's some Specialized BB peculiarity from the era (1997 ish).

That technique sounds good and an alternative to me finding a bolt, which I don't think I have, to hold the tool in place whilst I lever. I just have the room around the vice to do that.[/quote]

Can you not use a crank bolt?

Not read the whole thread, so apologies if I'm repeating something here-

If your bb removal tool is thin enough you can hold it in place with a large washer or number of washers placed between the tool and the crank bolt. This should enable you to apply enough force (via an extension bar a.k.a. a length of 1" steel tubing) placed over the stilsons / adjustable spanner that grip the tool.

Also, +1 to leaving it to soak in penetrating oil overnight.

Lastly, if you try to tighten the shell it can sometimes just crack it enough so that you can then loosen it. When i say tighten I mean a tiny amount - 1/8th or a 1/16th of a turn.

 

[Crackle]

I haven't soaked it, I will tomorrow and possibly leave until Saturday before attempting to loosen it. I had planned to have this ready for a Saturday jaunt but I didn't realize it was going to be such a pain.

The tool I have is quite large, so the normal crank bolts aren't long enough and the axle is solid so I can't get a QR through (unless I'm missing a trick with the QR?).

 

[Monsieur Remings]

I did this recently and used a bolt and nut with the BB removal tool and a large adjustable wrench. The size of the bolt is determined by the size of the bolts used to fasten the crank arms to the BB. Don't worry too much if the only bolt you can find has a slightly different thread, as long as it's near enough and you have a nut that will screw over the top it should be okay.

Place the nut over the bolt and position the nut to the rear of the bolt. Face the BB removal tool against the teeth of the bracket and then screw the bolt into the middle of the square taper (where the crank would have gone) through the BB removal tool. I found that the thread on the bolt I used wouldn't quite fit the thread inside the BB but as the BB will not be used again it doesn't matter if I wreck the internal threading; the point being is to have the bolt firmly inside. I then did up the nut to press firm against the BB removal tool to make up for the poor thread match.

This pressure was enough to hold the tool in place and the adjustable wrench did the rest. Good luck.