Bassons implying Wiggins/Froome are dopers?

[Strathlubnaig]

I think what he is saying is that Sky et al are using training techniques (and probably throwing money at stuff) that constitute everything but actual doping, i.e. against the spirit of the sport rather than actually breaking the rules.

A bit like Starbucks and UK tax then

 

[ayceejay]

I have read here on this forum that the way to improve your performance on the bike is to ride your bike. Clearly at a professional level this is not enough. All sports have improved over the years due to more scientific training methods as well as changes in equipment, dietary supplements and so on (use the presently disgraced 'blade runner' as an example. Gaining a legitimate edge over and above an athletes natural talent is an ongoing process, yet "an athletes natural talent" is a difficult one for one without it to get their head around.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

A bit like Starbucks and UK tax then

Exactly - it's why he specifically talks about cheating rather than doping.

 

[rich p]

Yes, but what is he inferring? It sounds like ill-informed mud-slinging to me. AICAR is on the banned list - so it isn't that.
If it isn't on the list then it's not sailing close to the wind, it's legal. It either is or it isn't.
FWIW, everything I've heard and read from Sky and Wiggins is that they take nothing, zilch, nada. I'm willing to be persuaded otherwise but saying they must be doping because they're winning just doesn't cut it for me.

 

[Hont]

Jonathan Vaughters has responded to the muscle comment...

34 lbs/ft torque [450 Watts at 95 rpm with 175 cranks] does not require big muscles.It requires aerobic efficiency.

He presumably thinks Bassons was referring (at least in part) to Ryder Hesjedal.

 

[Crackle]

I've read the interview a couple of times now and there are aspects I like, plus it's Bassons, a man who, at the very least, deserves respect but I can't help feeling some of it is unachievable, almost naive. If I had to condense it, I would say that what he's saying is, it's not the winning, it's the taking part.

He says "You only talk about who won, never about anything to do with values." In fact I don't think this is true. Whoever wins has their values examined deeply. We hold the winners values in high esteem, this is the very reason for the huge outrage against doping in cycling, we need to believe in our winners.

Then he says "The media can’t and shouldn’t say that a guy is doping because he’s producing a certain number of watts. That’s not your role." Isn't it. Without people like Walsh and Kimmage would we know now what we know. He goes on to qualify it but I think he's being a bit prescriptive.

When he talks about sponsors and values "then sponsors who want to project those same values for their company will also come onboard" he seems to be missing that the sponsors already project those values. They extrapolate them from whoever they sponsor and that's what gets bound to their product.

I still don't disagree with what he's saying but it seems to be the interview of an idealist rather than a realist. I'm open to persuasion otherwise.

 

[thom]

Exactly - it's why he specifically talks about cheating rather than doping.

As such, it's vaguely xenophobic - does he have a history of talking about the the successes of Spanish riders ?

 

[Hotblack Desiato]

I think what he is saying is that Sky et al are using training techniques (and probably throwing money at stuff) that constitute everything but actual doping, i.e. against the spirit of the sport rather than actually breaking the rules.

..or maybe bodyline bowling? A win-at-all-costs tactic that was not illegal but was certainly unsporting by the standards of the day. Now umpires can decide that bowling is too aggressive and censure the bowler. Nevertheless, cricket was changed forever after or by the bodyline series.

I've read the interview a couple of times now and there are aspects I like, plus it's Bassons, a man who, at the very least, deserves respect but I can't help feeling some of it is unachievable, almost naive. If I had to condense it, I would say that what he's saying is, it's not the winning, it's the taking part...

..I still don't disagree with what he's saying but it seems to be the interview of an idealist rather than a realist. I'm open to persuasion otherwise.

I'd concur with your interpretation. And in the context of Anglo-saxon values he is perhaps naive. However 'Oranges', as they say 'are not the only fruit'.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

I'd concur with your interpretation. And in the context of Anglo-saxon values he is perhaps naive. However 'Oranges', as they say 'are not the only fruit'.

He's a lesbian too?

 

[Hotblack Desiato]

He's a lesbian too?

 

[montage]

If Sky were doing something dodgy, don't you think Leinders et al would be shouting about something?

 

[Hotblack Desiato]

The plain truth is that there is only ever one winner in the tour de France. The clue is in the name. Contestants who podium simply stand there like lemons, the finger of suspicion hanging over their heads like a poisoned chalice, the wax melting on their wings.

 

[oldroadman]

The comment about "big muscles" is plain silly. In road racing aerobic efficiency is what it's about. A big engine is required. This is partially genetic, partially conditioning. As an example, Sky, quite correctly, use every modern available training and equipment advantage - BUT THE RIDERS STILL CLIMB SLOWER THAN IN THE EPO DAYS. Does that tell you something?
Fact, after losing the sprint title to Mr Kenny, a losing French rider all but said at a press conference, "you beat me, what are you on?". Said rider just back in time from a doping suspension!
Fact, French team management at the OGs were putting around that GB had specal equipment "magic wheels". Probably rounder than anyone else's. Rubbish. Or simply Mavic - they are the brand of track wheels GBCT uses, and they take very good care to ensure they are clean (hence the bags) and perfect, along with tubulars. Oh, and having one of the best team mechanic groups in the world helps.
What to conclude? Jealous losers will tend to complain and seek to blame anything other than looking at any faulst of their own which may have been the cause. Especially when French.
Mr Bassons seems a nice enough guy, and I respect his stand on the doping issue, but he seems a bit naive, and stretching his credibility when hinting at things about which he has little or no knowledge.

 

[Crankarm]

The comment about "big muscles" is plain silly. In road racing aerobic efficiency is what it's about. A big engine is required. This is partially genetic, partially conditioning. As an example, Sky, quite correctly, use every modern available training and equipment advantage - BUT THE RIDERS STILL CLIMB SLOWER THAN IN THE EPO DAYS. Does that tell you something?
Fact, after losing the sprint title to Mr Kenny, a losing French rider all but said at a press conference, "you beat me, what are you on?". Said rider just back in time from a doping suspension!
Fact, French team management at the OGs were putting around that GB had specal equipment "magic wheels". Probably rounder than anyone else's. Rubbish. Or simply Mavic - they are the brand of track wheels GBCT uses, and they take very good care to ensure they are clean (hence the bags) and perfect, along with tubulars. Oh, and having one of the best team mechanic groups in the world helps.
What to conclude? Jealous losers will tend to complain and seek to blame anything other than looking at any faulst of their own which may have been the cause. Especially when French.
Mr Bassons seems a nice enough guy, and I respect his stand on the doping issue, but he seems a bit naive, and stretching his credibility when hinting at things about which he has little or no knowledge.

More like sour grapes and a sore runner up.

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

The comment about "big muscles" is plain silly. In road racing aerobic efficiency is what it's about. A big engine is required. This is partially genetic, partially conditioning. As an example, Sky, quite correctly, use every modern available training and equipment advantage - BUT THE RIDERS STILL CLIMB SLOWER THAN IN THE EPO DAYS. Does that tell you something?
Fact, after losing the sprint title to Mr Kenny, a losing French rider all but said at a press conference, "you beat me, what are you on?". Said rider just back in time from a doping suspension!
Fact, French team management at the OGs were putting around that GB had specal equipment "magic wheels". Probably rounder than anyone else's. Rubbish. Or simply Mavic - they are the brand of track wheels GBCT uses, and they take very good care to ensure they are clean (hence the bags) and perfect, along with tubulars. Oh, and having one of the best team mechanic groups in the world helps.
What to conclude? Jealous losers will tend to complain and seek to blame anything other than looking at any faulst of their own which may have been the cause. Especially when French.
Mr Bassons seems a nice enough guy, and I respect his stand on the doping issue, but he seems a bit naive, and stretching his credibility when hinting at things about which he has little or no knowledge.

Oh yes, Baugé if I remember rightly. Missed 3 availability tests and then came away with a silver with a clear ''I'm a winner, I didn't win, therefore you cheated'' approach to coming second. Actually, I'm not sure there was a reference to magic wheels, the phrase was how the UK press parodied her suspicions about BC keeping their wheels under wraps until the last minute. (To stop the alcohol treatment from evaporating???)