OP
OP
Short_Lass
Regular
Velovoice: I cansee Whipsnade Zoo from my window. I see Laura Dent, a sports therapist in Berkhamsted.
Back pain, wrong bike, give up?
- Thread starter Short_Lass
- Start date
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OP
OP
Short_Lass
Regular
Aceejay: i would say I am leaning further forward than all of those pictures. Less upright. But I've never seen myself! Maybe I will ask a family member to take a pic so I can see. But when it's not dark (like it is now)
I thiught stress with the office move, but I think that may havebeen just a contributing factor. Physio said my neck was solid when I saw her. I had two hour sessions, the first sorted out the outer muscles and she got deeper on the second appointment.
I thiught stress with the office move, but I think that may havebeen just a contributing factor. Physio said my neck was solid when I saw her. I had two hour sessions, the first sorted out the outer muscles and she got deeper on the second appointment.
annedonnelly
Girl from the North Country
- Location
- Blyth, Northumberland
In your office move have you ended up sitting in a different type of chair? It could be that. A lot of things have changed for you all at once - it might not be the bike, or it might be the bike combined with other things.
ayceejay
Guru
- Location
- Rural Quebec
mjr
Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
- Location
- mostly Norfolk, sometimes Somerset
You might want to lower the gearing, but Dutch bikes should be fine unless you're scaling the Dunstable downs often, but then there's the electric.
I don't like the sound of the fitter who can't adjust a Dutch bike! As a minimum, the saddle should move forwards/backwards as well as up/down, although that might not help as it changes your position over the pedals. If you're at the full extent of an adjustable stem, to bring the handlebars towards you probably means replacing the stem with a shorter one or replacing the bars with some that sweep or stretch further back (velo Orange probably have some if mainstream brands like Raleigh don't go far enough for you). If it's a road bike sort of shop, they might only have parts for aheadsets in stock and maybe don't know about or don't want to order in some quill stems and bars that are unlikely ever to be put on a road bike!
Don't be scared, maybe take a trip to Cambridge or Oxford to a practical bike shop for tips on how to set up an upright bike and deal with the other stresses when you can. Good luck!
I don't like the sound of the fitter who can't adjust a Dutch bike! As a minimum, the saddle should move forwards/backwards as well as up/down, although that might not help as it changes your position over the pedals. If you're at the full extent of an adjustable stem, to bring the handlebars towards you probably means replacing the stem with a shorter one or replacing the bars with some that sweep or stretch further back (velo Orange probably have some if mainstream brands like Raleigh don't go far enough for you). If it's a road bike sort of shop, they might only have parts for aheadsets in stock and maybe don't know about or don't want to order in some quill stems and bars that are unlikely ever to be put on a road bike!
Don't be scared, maybe take a trip to Cambridge or Oxford to a practical bike shop for tips on how to set up an upright bike and deal with the other stresses when you can. Good luck!
OP
OP
Short_Lass
Regular
Mjray: That sounds like a plan.
It really appears that the seat / handlebars will only go up and down (not forwards or backwards). The guy seems to think that they are too far apart for me to reach comfortably. It's partly because the stem which holds the seat also holds the battery and this is fixed. I'm not going up and down Dunstable Downs, there is just a few steady inclines that go on for a mile on the way to work to negotiate. My legs have got a little used to it now, however.
But the interesting thing is that no one here seemed to endorse what he said about this position causing back pain. It does mean I am left a little confused. I'm going to call bike shop #3 today, I think.
It really appears that the seat / handlebars will only go up and down (not forwards or backwards). The guy seems to think that they are too far apart for me to reach comfortably. It's partly because the stem which holds the seat also holds the battery and this is fixed. I'm not going up and down Dunstable Downs, there is just a few steady inclines that go on for a mile on the way to work to negotiate. My legs have got a little used to it now, however.
But the interesting thing is that no one here seemed to endorse what he said about this position causing back pain. It does mean I am left a little confused. I'm going to call bike shop #3 today, I think.
Aunty Tyke
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Oxfordshire
Perfect illustration of the importance of getting your bike set up for you,the woman at the bottom looks like cycling round the block would cause a problem. Heaps of good independant bike shops in Oxfordshire,good luck
OP
OP
Short_Lass
Regular
A horrible picture of me on my bike. It's on the stand, so I'm not actually riding it here. I feels like I am leaning more forward than I actually am. Apparently I lean a bit more forward very slightly when riding but not much. I appear to look like that uncomfortable woman pictured above. The only adjustment the bike guy made was putting the handlebars down by about three inches. They don't go lower. Saddle is about at the right height for leg length.
I got this bike because: "The Freego Wren is a specifically designed electric bike for those of a slighter stature, with its 24" wheels and smaller frame it is perfectly built with that regard whilst still maintaining elegance, style, power and comfort."
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mjr
Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
- Location
- mostly Norfolk, sometimes Somerset
I agree, you're leant forwards too much for an upright bike. If you've a bad back, I suspect it would be straining back, shoulders and neck - or if you lean onto the handlebars, it'll strain the shoulders, arms and usually wrists. I'd expect the same would happen if there's not enough core strength to hold such a lean for long, but a bad back would hinder building core strength, so who knows? I'm no physio 
At a glance, that looks an OK handlebar height. You don't need them any further down: you need them aft. I can't zoom in on the picture to see, but that looks like quite a long stem between the steerer and the bars. Does it have a hex head on one side of the bend to allow you to bring the bars further towards you? And then you'll need to undo the bolts around the bar clamp a bit to get them horizontalish again. Take note of how much you undo any bolt so you can do them up the same amount. Probably measure how much you move them, if you can. Adjustable stems sometimes have markings around the joint.
If that can't come towards you enough, you could replace the stem (or have it replaced by a shop) with a "short reach" one like this which I've got on one of my uprights: http://www.freemanscycles.co.uk/raleigh-short-reach-stem.html
And if that's still not enough, you could replace the bars with some that come further back, like this which I've got on another upright: http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/components/handlebars/vo-montmartre-handlebar.html
But all this is guesswork and fiddling based on incomplete experience really. I've been setting my own bikes up for decades and I still get it wrong sometimes. It would be best to go to some shop that knows upright bikes and e-bikes. That should have been the first shop Any reason not to take it back to them to see if they can adjust it? Sadly, because I fiddle with my own setups, I'm not sure which shops are any good 
I'm surprised if there's no bolt(s) under the saddle to let it move forwards/backwards, but the saddle position doesn't look seriously wrong to me so I'm not going to worry about it further now
At a glance, that looks an OK handlebar height. You don't need them any further down: you need them aft. I can't zoom in on the picture to see, but that looks like quite a long stem between the steerer and the bars. Does it have a hex head on one side of the bend to allow you to bring the bars further towards you? And then you'll need to undo the bolts around the bar clamp a bit to get them horizontalish again. Take note of how much you undo any bolt so you can do them up the same amount. Probably measure how much you move them, if you can. Adjustable stems sometimes have markings around the joint.
If that can't come towards you enough, you could replace the stem (or have it replaced by a shop) with a "short reach" one like this which I've got on one of my uprights: http://www.freemanscycles.co.uk/raleigh-short-reach-stem.html
And if that's still not enough, you could replace the bars with some that come further back, like this which I've got on another upright: http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/components/handlebars/vo-montmartre-handlebar.html
But all this is guesswork and fiddling based on incomplete experience really. I've been setting my own bikes up for decades and I still get it wrong sometimes. It would be best to go to some shop that knows upright bikes and e-bikes. That should have been the first shop
Any reason not to take it back to them to see if they can adjust it? Sadly, because I fiddle with my own setups, I'm not sure which shops are any good I'm surprised if there's no bolt(s) under the saddle to let it move forwards/backwards, but the saddle position doesn't look seriously wrong to me so I'm not going to worry about it further now
jonny jeez
Legendary Member
- Location
- Chislehurst, Kent, UK
I believe the guy in the shop believes he is right.
Whetet he is or not is really hard to know.
Why not consider renting a road bike for a week, put the same miles under the wheels and see how you feel, it'll probably cost less than £50.
If he is right, then part ex the existing bike for a road bike.
Whetet he is or not is really hard to know.
Why not consider renting a road bike for a week, put the same miles under the wheels and see how you feel, it'll probably cost less than £50.
If he is right, then part ex the existing bike for a road bike.
cyberknight
As long as I breathe, I attack.
- Location
- Land of confusion
TMN to me regarding handle bar adjustment
regarding handle bar adjustment
velovoice
Veteran
- Location
- Between the City and the Sea
Okay. I see David McGill, a sports therapist who specialises in corrective exercise. He's particularly good at alignment and muscle balance issues and a genius at soft tissue release. He's also a keen cyclist. He has others on his team who do the same thing. I see him in Harpenden but I believe they offer appointments in Berkhamsted and maybe Hemel too.
Whatever the cause, it does sound like something is stressing your upper back and neck -- which is a frequent migraine trigger for me, too. Targeted exercises would almost certainly help. Hope you find a solution soon!
mjr
Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
- Location
- mostly Norfolk, sometimes Somerset
I've been pondering a bit more. Looked at the photos on the end of page 1 on a larger screen and the photo of your position. Thought about the road bike comments and my own riding on different bikes. Riding upright probably does put more demands on the lower back to keep you balanced. When riding long distances on my comfy roadster, I mix it up a bit by holding the U-shaped bar near the stem and leaning forwards sometimes (which is also good for aerodynamics).
The other way to go with a bike is to aim for a more athletic position by moving the saddle back (and probably slightly down to keep the pedal-seat distance constant) until you find a possible sweet spot where there's almost no weight on your hands on the bars - maybe start with the bars in the position that bike shop 2 left them. But then we're worrying about the bolt under the saddle again and possibly spinning the saddle clamp through 180° or swapping the seatpost for one with more setback if it doesn't have any.
I think leaning forwards more and making an effort not to hunch the back reduces the direct weight on the lower back but places more demands on the muscles. It seems like it would become uncomfortable sooner but the muscles should slowly adapt and strengthen, allowing riding a bit further or the bars to go a bit more forwards and down and so on and so on... which I think is how I ended up able to ride road bikes with the bars below the saddle. http://sheldonbrown.com/pain.html#back and its links to posture and "hands up!"
The other way to go with a bike is to aim for a more athletic position by moving the saddle back (and probably slightly down to keep the pedal-seat distance constant) until you find a possible sweet spot where there's almost no weight on your hands on the bars - maybe start with the bars in the position that bike shop 2 left them. But then we're worrying about the bolt under the saddle again and possibly spinning the saddle clamp through 180° or swapping the seatpost for one with more setback if it doesn't have any.
I think leaning forwards more and making an effort not to hunch the back reduces the direct weight on the lower back but places more demands on the muscles. It seems like it would become uncomfortable sooner but the muscles should slowly adapt and strengthen, allowing riding a bit further or the bars to go a bit more forwards and down and so on and so on... which I think is how I ended up able to ride road bikes with the bars below the saddle. http://sheldonbrown.com/pain.html#back and its links to posture and "hands up!"
fossyant
Ride It Like You Stole It!
- Location
- South Manchester
Not too much wrong with the position. I feel it's because you aren't used to riding. Don't even consider a road bike just yet as this will knacker your back and neck if you are struggling with your current position.
velovoice
Veteran
- Location
- Between the City and the Sea
@mjray I see where you're going with this, and for a lot of people who are in basically good shape in terms of balanced strength and flexibility, this makes a great deal of sense. However...
If the saddle is in the right fore/aft position for the knees and, following from that, at the correct height (or within a tolerable window or range) for correct knee extension - then set it there and don't mess with it. Issues with the back, neck, shoulders, etc have their solutions elsewhere on the bike.
Please let's not lose sight of the possibility that, if the bike is not causing the problem, it may well be aggravating it. The cause needs to be identified and sort out, off the bike first, and then some muscle re-conditioning may be needed to ensure painfree cycling as well.
I've dealt with a lot of cycling pain from poor fit, now resolved thankfully, but have in the process realised that what you do when you're not engaged in a particular sport or physical activity is often key to being able to partake in that sport/activity without pain, which is a necessary stage to reach if you wish to get stronger/faster or in any other way progress in a way that makes you feel happy and proud, not discouraged and miserable.
Saddle fore/aft position is the very first step in bike fit and is dictated by the knees. You cannot then shift the saddle fore or aft to try and address reach issues or 'too much weight on hands' issues or any of the other problems commonly encountered for which people often go straight to saddle fore/aft.
If the saddle is in the right fore/aft position for the knees and, following from that, at the correct height (or within a tolerable window or range) for correct knee extension - then set it there and don't mess with it. Issues with the back, neck, shoulders, etc have their solutions elsewhere on the bike.
Please let's not lose sight of the possibility that, if the bike is not causing the problem, it may well be aggravating it. The cause needs to be identified and sort out, off the bike first, and then some muscle re-conditioning may be needed to ensure painfree cycling as well.
I've dealt with a lot of cycling pain from poor fit, now resolved thankfully, but have in the process realised that what you do when you're not engaged in a particular sport or physical activity is often key to being able to partake in that sport/activity without pain, which is a necessary stage to reach if you wish to get stronger/faster or in any other way progress in a way that makes you feel happy and proud, not discouraged and miserable.
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