Armstrong charged and banned

[Alun]

Had he cooperated with USADA (and he refused to do so, of his own volition) then he might well have been allowed to keep the wins that were outside of the statute of limitations. I suspect he'd still have been given a lifetime ban though. Of course, cooperation would mean throwing a lot of people under the bus so it's no wonder he felt too tired to do so. Personally it would have been better if he had cooperated, but a lifetime ban means he can't have anything to do with cycling. Remember when he and Verbruggen were planning to buy the TdF? He's where he belongs, well away from cycling. People like Crankarm don't get this...

Tygard has said that he can STILL keep 5 wins, if he turns Supergrass. Who would he turn in? The whole thrust of the last 1700 posts is that HE is public enemy No.1, only aided and abetted by others. I wonder how much evidence there is on Bruyneel that Tygard feels it necessary to offer 5 TdF wins (as many as anyone else has ever won) as an inducement?

 

[albion]

If you want to have a go at someone who deserves it, why not try Sally 'two books' Jenkins?

I was having a go at Walsh. He sinisterly seems to have Wiggins on his agenda now.

If the guy had stuck to the subject of Armstrong he would not have pissed me off so much.

 

[Alun]

"What I find incredible is that Armstrong has been offered 5 of his TdF wins back"

So he could be another of their reformed characters I guess.
It is the very first time I have heard this.

Here you go!
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/cycl...ce-Armstrong-Tour-de-France-doping/57336128/1

 

[marinyork]

Giving Armstrong a lifetime ban, is about as meaningful as banning Ullrich, 5 years after he had retired anyway, and then giving him another 3 TdF wins whilst he's still serving his 2 year ban. No wonder they've want to give them back to Armstrong!

You keep on going on an on about this, but it seems far from clear there is a need to 'give' the victories to someone else. In recent years there are two vacancies in the tour de france podiums, and you know this perfectly well and yet you haven't responded meaningfully to that point at al with anything that adds to the discussion.

 

[smutchin]

Tygard has said that he can STILL keep 5 wins, if he turns Supergrass. Who would he turn in? The whole thrust of the last 1700 posts is that HE is public enemy No.1, only aided and abetted by others. I wonder how much evidence there is on Bruyneel that Tygard feels it necessary to offer 5 TdF wins (as many as anyone else has ever won) as an inducement?

Well, whatever Lance and Johann did, they didn't do it alone. I don't think anyone here really believes the buck stops with Lance.

Tygart is clearly gunning for the UCI now, but he may also have other targets in his sights.

Maybe Lance is taking the flak to protect bigger interests who could hurt him a lot more than any sporting body taking away his titles...

It'll be interesting to see how far this one goes.

d.

 

[albion]

Maybe you are right but it is still complete rubbish that people are not banned for life.
As far as I'm concerned the cycle teams are where the buck mainly stops.

Armstrong is a pig headed strong person. He can't be persuaded towards Tygards truth.

 

[Crankarm]

The way I see it is Armstrong looks like a guy who'd prefer to live the rest of his life as the idol of a gullible minority rather than a man with some sense of humility as perceived by the rest of the world. In other words, a conman and a coward.
I think the UCI probably will look like clowns.
I think USADA pretty much look like the only ones with a backbone.

What kind of sanction do you think a guy should get if from a legal/quasi-legal point of view he has accepted charges that place him at the center of the most spectacular sporting fraud in history ?

To quote Paula Radcliffe on the matter "Drug cheats out".

:troll:

 

[Crankarm]

Well, whatever Lance and Johann did, they didn't do it alone. I don't think anyone here really believes the buck stops with Lance.

Tygart is clearly gunning for the UCI now, but he may also have other targets in his sights.

Maybe Lance is taking the flak to protect bigger interests who could hurt him a lot more than any sporting body taking away his titles...

It'll be interesting to see how far this one goes.

d.

Maybe, maybe. I don't think he is a grass though. But just perhaps LA is just tired of the whole circus now, racking up huge legal bills defending himself and sapping his energy. As he said in his recent statement he has been fighting the trolls since 1999. Maybe he has just decided to move on, to focus on what is currently important in his life and it is his diplomatic way of saying that he no longer gives a sh1t. After all he has now been retired 5 years and left it all behind.

Why didn't USADA just offer an amnesty to all Pro riders in these years so they could at least get to the bottom of exactly who did what and when rather than this witch hunt and creating a scenario for conspiracy theories and the lynch mob which we have read plenty of in this thread by the LA haters?

 

[rich p]

Crankarm your verdict on Thom is laughable.

I assumed it was ironic.

 

[thom]

Crankarm your verdict on Thom is laughable.

To be fair to Crankarm, it appears that with the absence of any lingering semblance of a defence, it's the only thing that Lance Armstrong can say on the matter any more to his accusers.

 

[Red Light]

Tygard has said that he can STILL keep 5 wins, if he turns Supergrass. Who would he turn in? The whole thrust of the last 1700 posts is that HE is public enemy No.1, only aided and abetted by others. I wonder how much evidence there is on Bruyneel that Tygard feels it necessary to offer 5 TdF wins (as many as anyone else has ever won) as an inducement?

McCarthy anyone?

 

[Red Light]

Its very impressive - but raising a load of money is not the same as doing worth with it. The Foundation sits on a pot of $110million yet in 2011 did not fund a single research grant. Quite incredible, that.

The Foundation is not about funding research. It's about supporting the victims and survivors of cancer and their families and raising public awareness of the disease so that unlike with Armstrong, it can be caught at an earlier stage.

But perhaps you think the MacMillan nurses are a waste of money too. http://m.macmillan.org.uk/home

 

[Red Light]

Doctors do indeed risk their career by engaging in doping activities. If they get caught. If...

So why would a group of leading cancer doctors falsify treatment notes and later perjure themselves with the risk of losing their careers, status and jobs just so one of their patients, who at the time was pretty much an unknown competitor in a, for the USA at that time, fringe sport and for whom they gave a 2% chance of surviving a metastasised cancer, could later escape doping charges? It's pretty far fetched to think if he said what Betsy Andreu says he said to his doctors that it was not written down there and then in his hospital records.

 

[Red Light]

The way I see it is Armstrong looks like a guy who'd prefer to live the rest of his life as the idol of a gullible minority rather than a man with some sense of humility as perceived by the rest of the world.

Seems from the opinion polls in the US ( which are the only ones that will matter to a Texan) the majority believe he didn't dope so your "gullible minority" is actually a majority. Haven't seen any opinion polls for other countries though.

 

[black'n'yellow]

who at the time was pretty much an unknown competitor in a, for the USA at that time, fringe sport

That's rubbish. Armstrong had already won the world RR champs in 93, so was hardly 'unknown' - and another bloke called Lemond had already won three TDF titles - it's possible the Yanks may have noticed that. It might not have been major league baseball, but it was not 'fringe' either....