Are British Cycling & Sky being deliberately sexist?

[velovoice]

Yes, in a positive way.

Testosterone surplus? Patronising attitudes? Machismo? Inability comprehend the merits of positive discrimination?
I could go on.

I had something along those lines all ready to post but then thought it was stating the obvious. Perhaps it's not.

When a woman is one of the slowest (on any ride but especially in a mixed group), she beats herself up for holding up the others. She's thinking "I'm ruining it for the others. They'd all be having a better time if I weren't here." (=It's all my fault.)

It's been said that when a man is the slowest in a group, he gets angry that the others are leaving him behind. (=It's all their fault.)

Women who somehow survive this kind of "hazing" (however inadvertent it may be) learn how to cope with that inner voice. Breeze targets women who are not already cyclists. They need an environment where they can learn and improve which includes learning how to respond/silence that inner voice telling them "you're totally crap at this AND ruining everybody else's day". That, for most women, means NO MEN until they've gained some confidence. (These are often women coming to Breeze because trying to get started cycling by going on rides with their husband/boyfriend/SO -- who, no matter how helpful and sympathetic they may be, still have different abilities and don't have a clue about the subliminal sabotage going on in her head -- is dragging them down, not building them up.

This thread was never about "why have women's-only rides" -- but why the organisation that created them for gods' sake isn't giving them the same support (in all senses of the word) as they do the rides they run that are not gender restricted.

 

[Mr Haematocrit]

Some people are making assumptions based on stereotypes and I think its important to appreciate that not all men are the same.
I'm against discrimination of all kinds, and do not feel there is such a thing as positive discrimination. What needs to be addressed is the issues which deter women from taking to the bike, from feeling comfortable in their own space.
IMHO positive discrimination is a sticking plaster for deeper issues in society and if people want/desire events such as this they have to appreciate they more leg work/self motivation is required to make it work and Sky and BC should not pick up the tab.

To be frank I could not care about this type of event itself but I personally think Sky/BC have a balanced view regarding funding an exclusive event. There is a limited amount of funding and support available and I would not wish for disability sport to have reduced funding to give more money to exclusive events no matter whom they are for.

 

[Kookas]

Yes, in a positive way.

Testosterone surplus? Patronising attitudes? Machismo? Inability comprehend the merits of positive discrimination?
I could go on.

Because every single man is like that.

 

[Flying Dodo]

Some people are making assumptions based on stereotypes and I think its important to appreciate that not all men are the same.
I'm against discrimination of all kinds, and do not feel there is such a thing as positive discrimination. What needs to be addressed is the issues which deter women from taking to the bike, from feeling comfortable in their own space.
IMHO positive discrimination is a sticking plaster for deeper issues in society and if people want/desire events such as this they have to appreciate they more leg work/self motivation is required to make it work.

To be frank I could not care about this type of event itself but I personally think Sky/BC have a balanced view regarding funding an exclusive event. There is a limited amount of funding and support available and I would not wish for disability sport to have reduced funding to give more money to exclusive events no matter whom they are for.

Surely the answer to make women more comfortable cycling, is remove the element that makes it uncomfortable?

 

[Flying Dodo]

Because every single man is like that.

No, but quite a few are, as indicated by some of the comments posted above.

 

[velovoice]

Some people are making assumptions based on stereotypes and I think its important to appreciate that not all men are the same..

Nobody said all men are the same.

I'm against discrimination of all kinds, and do not feel there is such a thing as positive discrimination. What needs to be addressed is the issues which deter women from taking to the bike, from feeling comfortable in their own space.

That's exactly the point: what goes on women's heads, that keeps them from cycling. It's not about the men per se.

IMHO positive discrimination is a sticking plaster for deeper issues in society and if people want/desire events such as this they have to appreciate they more leg work/self motivation is required to make it work.

Generally speaking, I'd agree. But as I've said, this is about encouraging women to have a go, instead of thinking they can't and/or that they're not welcome/wanted. the factors that make them feel that way are totally immaterial in this context. The fact is, they feel it. If Breeze gives them HEADspace to try cycling with less of that internal pressure, then... mission accomplished.

The point is still -- if an organisation is claiming to promote something with a specific stated goal, why are they not supporting it?

 

[Flying Dodo]

I'd say it's not positive discrimination to run a women's only ride, but an example of positive action, to redress an imbalance. Many organisations, such the House of Commons, to the police, to armed forces and multi national organisations, use positive action to encourage more participation from elements of society which are under represented.

But once again, that's not the issue.

The issue is why should Sky expect women to volunteer to run rides for free, yet be happy to pay a bloke to do an easier job?

 

[Mr Haematocrit]

Surely the answer to make women more comfortable cycling, is remove the element that makes it uncomfortable?

Sky/BC do not have an unlimited budget. There is only so much money to go round.
Do you feel that funds should be provided to exclusive events if the cost is a reduction in funding to disability cycling and youth cycling projects?

I just think Sky/BC have a reasonable balance, they are permitting exclusive discrimatory events, they are supporting them on their website, but they do not fund them as extensively at the cost of other projects. I simply do not believe Sky/BC is being sexist which is what they are being accused of as they do not exclude women from leading normal sky rides.

 

[Flying Dodo]

Sky/BC do not have an unlimited budget. There is only so much money to go round.
Do you feel that funds should be provided to exclusive events if the cost is a reduction in funding to disability cycling and youth cycling projects?

I just think Sky/BC have a reasonable balance, they are permitting exclusive discrimatory events, they are supporting them on their website, but they do not fund them as extensively at the cost of other projects. I simply do not believe Sky/BC is being sexist which is what they are being accused of as they do not exclude women from leading normal sky rides.

You're ignoring the main issue.

As I stated in my opening post:

It would however seem very sexist to expect women volunteers to do all that extra work, whilst a bloke gets paid to do far less

Birmingham City Council recently have to pay out millions due to underpaying women.
This is a similar thing.

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

If women can get paid to lead open Sky rides then I don't really feel it's unfair. Except perhaps if there's a ghettoising process where a woman steps up to ask about leading a Sky ride and gets directed towards the unpaid Breeze rides.

 

[Mr Haematocrit]

The issue is why should Sky expect women to volunteer to run rides for free, yet be happy to pay a bloke to do a similar job?

Sky will pay a women to run a sky ride same as a man <-------- this is not discrimination
Breeze rides are funded by Sport England.... The same organization funding disability and youth cycling projects. The issue is from my perspective is should limited funds be used to help and support those who do not have choices and require expensive specialized equipment like the disabled or those who do have a choice yet wish to exclude themselves from others?

 

[Flying Dodo]

Sky will pay a women to run a sky ride same as a man <-------- this is not discrimination

But it is when they expect women to do far more work for nothing, in running a women only ride (ie plan, publicise and lead).

 

[Mr Haematocrit]

You're ignoring the main issue.

As I stated in my opening post:

Birmingham City Council recently have to pay out millions due to underpaying women.
This is a similar thing.

I don't think I'm missing the point at all, if women run a inclusive sky ride they get paid..
To show that it is sexist treatment you need to provide evidence of a man who is running a Breeze ride and getting paid for it. I do not think anyone has at this point.
It is not prohibited for a man to run a Breeze ride as far as I know and they are subject to the same terms as women running these events.

 

[Flying Dodo]

I don't think I'm missing the point at all, if women run a inclusive sky ride they get paid..
To show that it is sexist treatment you need to provide evidence of a man who is running a Breeze ride and getting paid for it. I do not think anyone has at this point.

Men don't run Breeze rides. However if you read the link I provided in the first post for normal Sky Rides:

In addition to free training, we’ll provide you with branded kit, a British Cycling Ride membership, payment for leading and assisting on rides; plus plenty of other goodies.

Breeze Ride Leaders don't get that.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Because every single man is like that.

Hence I posed questions. Hence the question marks. This interwebs lark isn't as hard are you are making out.

Now if you want to claim that you have never ever experienced those things when riding with men, go ahead.