Anyone come across this

[Drago]

It is an insignificant amount. It's not enough to start bulldozing buildings or comprehensively restructuring road layouts to properly incorporate segregated cycle. It's probably do one moderate sized town, certainly not London, absolutely not the whole country.

 

[stowie]

It is an insignificant amount. It's not enough to start bulldozing buildings or comprehensively restructuring road layouts to properly incorporate segregated cycle. It's probably do one moderate sized town, certainly not London, absolutely not the whole country.

No-one is proposing bull-dozing buildings for cycle lanes, I think that may be being somewhat dramatic. And it isn't for London, it is around £33M for three areas in London (£100M in total), each one a local "town centre". My point was that there is money for cycling, albeit on a local level, so cash isn't an issue for certain areas. Outside London I appreciate it is different.

Anyway, think of some simple stuff. How about shutting off rat-runs and returning residential streets to residents, pedestrians and cyclists. Monetarily it is insignificant, technically, even the worst councils can normally manage some bollards and flower beds to block off a road. So why isn't it done more often?

 

[dellzeqq]

No-one is proposing bull-dozing buildings for cycle lanes, I think that may be being somewhat dramatic. And it isn't for London, it is around £33M for three areas in London (£100M in total), each one a local "town centre". My point was that there is money for cycling, albeit on a local level, so cash isn't an issue for certain areas. Outside London I appreciate it is different.

Anyway, think of some simple stuff. How about shutting off rat-runs and returning residential streets to residents, pedestrians and cyclists. Monetarily it is insignificant, technically, even the worst councils can normally manage some bollards and flower beds to block off a road. So why isn't it done more often?

because everybody counts their success in terms of pounds spent. Re-phase the lights at Elephant and Castle for ten grand? Not a chance! 20 million on dopey cycle lanes for two roundabouts? Just what the doctor ordered!

 

[Pete Owens]

Honestly, not sure what planet you lot live on, but living in Bath, when you look at where people in the city commute to work by cycle the most, it comes down to having access to a good traffic free route (River path) into the city centre.
http://datashine.org.uk/#zoom=14&la...TTT&table=QS701EW&col=QS701EW0010&ramp=YlOrRd

This is a clear case of confirmation bias.

Any statistically random dataset split down to a fine enough granularity will demonstrate local clusters - just as you may throw three sixes in a row on an unwieghted dice. You are talking about the proportion of cycle commuters in a single postcode so those red blobs could would actually represent a handful of cyclists on a particular street. There are a few clusters scattered around Bath and one of them happens to be fairly close to a cycle path - you need rather more than that to see a causative effect. As others have pointed out - even if that cluster on the A4 is a genuine (if rather small) prefered cycling location it is just as easily explained by the hills.

However, that display of census data really is a powerful visulisation tool that would demonstrate any link between cycle paths and cycle use. If there was any relationship at all then the routes of cycle paths would show up as bands of orange and red on the map - even with the random noise. So to start take a look at the other end of the Bristol-Bath railway path and look at the map of Bristol that others have mentionned - no sign of it. If anything the northeastern sector of Bristol sees lower levels of cycle commuting than other areas.

Now lets look at Warrington, where I live:
http://datashine.org.uk/#zoom=13&la...TTT&table=QS701EW&col=QS701EW0010&ramp=YlOrRd
Now Warrington has a traditionally built central core with a radius of about 2km round the town centre. Normal street layout and a horrible dual carriageway ring road, but nothing in the way of segregated cycle paths. Outside this there are large areas of new-town development (you can see this by the wiggly culs-de-sac and distributor roads) These areas have a network of cycle paths threading through them - yet see the lowest levels of cycle commuting in the town. We also have the national cycle network running east-west through the southern parts of the town - no evidence of that attracting cycle commuters either.

Another example:
http://datashine.org.uk/#zoom=13&la...TTT&table=QS701EW&col=QS701EW0010&ramp=YlOrRd
Eric Claxton (a true believer in segregation) designed Stevenage from scratch around a comprehensive network of cycleways (and set the pattern for pretty much all new development over the past half centuary). Not much red on that map.

Nor here:
http://datashine.org.uk/#zoom=12&la...TTT&table=QS701EW&col=QS701EW0010&ramp=YlOrRd
The mother of all cycle networks where pretty much the entire population has access to cycleways.

Another example:
http://datashine.org.uk/#zoom=12&la...TTT&table=QS701EW&col=QS701EW0010&ramp=YlOrRd
Compare and contrast Shrewsbury with a compact tradititional street network - to Telford with its network of cycleways.

I could go on, but wherever you look on the map, those towns with the greatest concentration of cycleways see low levels of cycling.

 

[slowmotion]

I got all excited about a mention of the long defunct Central Electricity Generating Board. Imagine my disappointmant when it turned out to be yet another another bunch of nutters with a very tenuous grasp of reality.

 

[noodle]

This is a clear case of confirmation bias.

Any statistically random dataset split down to a fine enough granularity will demonstrate local clusters - just as you may throw three sixes in a row on an unwieghted dice. You are talking about the proportion of cycle commuters in a single postcode so those red blobs could would actually represent a handful of cyclists on a particular street. There are a few clusters scattered around Bath and one of them happens to be fairly close to a cycle path - you need rather more than that to see a causative effect. As others have pointed out - even if that cluster on the A4 is a genuine (if rather small) prefered cycling location it is just as easily explained by the hills.

However, that display of census data really is a powerful visulisation tool that would demonstrate any link between cycle paths and cycle use. If there was any relationship at all then the routes of cycle paths would show up as bands of orange and red on the map - even with the random noise. So to start take a look at the other end of the Bristol-Bath railway path and look at the map of Bristol that others have mentionned - no sign of it. If anything the northeastern sector of Bristol sees lower levels of cycle commuting than other areas.

Now lets look at Warrington, where I live:
http://datashine.org.uk/#zoom=13&la...TTT&table=QS701EW&col=QS701EW0010&ramp=YlOrRd
Now Warrington has a traditionally built central core with a radius of about 2km round the town centre. Normal street layout and a horrible dual carriageway ring road, but nothing in the way of segregated cycle paths. Outside this there are large areas of new-town development (you can see this by the wiggly culs-de-sac and distributor roads) These areas have a network of cycle paths threading through them - yet see the lowest levels of cycle commuting in the town. We also have the national cycle network running east-west through the southern parts of the town - no evidence of that attracting cycle commuters either.

Another example:
http://datashine.org.uk/#zoom=13&la...TTT&table=QS701EW&col=QS701EW0010&ramp=YlOrRd
Eric Claxton (a true believer in segregation) designed Stevenage from scratch around a comprehensive network of cycleways (and set the pattern for pretty much all new development over the past half centuary). Not much red on that map.

Nor here:
http://datashine.org.uk/#zoom=12&la...TTT&table=QS701EW&col=QS701EW0010&ramp=YlOrRd
The mother of all cycle networks where pretty much the entire population has access to cycleways.

Another example:
http://datashine.org.uk/#zoom=12&la...TTT&table=QS701EW&col=QS701EW0010&ramp=YlOrRd
Compare and contrast Shrewsbury with a compact tradititional street network - to Telford with its network of cycleways.

I could go on, but wherever you look on the map, those towns with the greatest concentration of cycleways see low levels of cycling.

any figures for skelmersdale? i used to work in warrington and rode in from st helens using no cycle paths that i was aware of (sanky canal starts a few hundred yards from my home and work at the time wasnt that far off it)

back to skelmersdale id find the figures for that place interesting as the amount of cyclists i see is phenomenal but if you took a census id guess not many would say they commute as they wouldnt think of it in those terms. im just going to work would be ther response

 

[Pete Owens]

The map covers the whole country - just pan an zoom. And hey presto - no cyclists there either:
http://datashine.org.uk/#zoom=14&la...TTT&table=QS701EW&col=QS701EW0010&ramp=YlOrRd
and plenty of car drivers:
http://datashine.org.uk/#zoom=14&la...TTT&table=QS701EW&col=QS701EW0008&ramp=YlOrRd
(note it is differently scaled so that even the yellow areas show 20% car use)

I would imagine that he illiterate ones who don't understand the meaning of the word "commute" will be found disproportionately in this view:
http://datashine.org.uk/#zoom=14&la...TTT&table=QS701EW&col=QS701EW0013&ramp=YlOrRd

 

[noodle]

The map covers the whole country - just pan an zoom. And hey presto - no cyclists there either:
http://datashine.org.uk/#zoom=14&la...TTT&table=QS701EW&col=QS701EW0010&ramp=YlOrRd
and plenty of car drivers:
http://datashine.org.uk/#zoom=14&la...TTT&table=QS701EW&col=QS701EW0008&ramp=YlOrRd
(note it is differently scaled so that even the yellow areas show 20% car use)

I would imagine that he illiterate ones who don't understand the meaning of the word "commute" will be found disproportionately in this view:
http://datashine.org.uk/#zoom=14&la...TTT&table=QS701EW&col=QS701EW0013&ramp=YlOrRd

Now that isn't nice none of the ones I know are illiterate. Most probably would use the term in a more appropriate context for travelling to work. Not a short hop of a mile or so, which for car users can easily be doubled if not more.
In real terms is 6 and a bit miles for me to cycle or 13 by car on the quickest route and 10 by the shortest route the real difference is once I'm off the motorway there wher it is two miles by car or 300 m as a pedestrian

 

[Pete Owens]

Now that isn't nice none of the ones I know are illiterate. Most probably would use the term in a more appropriate context for travelling to work. Not a short hop of a mile or so, which for car users can easily be doubled if not more.
In real terms is 6 and a bit miles for me to cycle or 13 by car on the quickest route and 10 by the shortest route the real difference is once I'm off the motorway there wher it is two miles by car or 300 m as a pedestrian

Tis irrelevent in any case - the census question asks about "method of travel to work" - and in the case of Skelmersdale hardly anyone answered "Bicycle".

 

[noodle]

Tis irrelevent in any case - the census question asks about "method of travel to work" - and in the case of Skelmersdale hardly anyone answered "Bicycle".

well hardly anyone works there......
our place has maybe 20 bikes and (bit skewed at the minute with contractors from all over the place) and 100 cars normally its about 30 cars which is seeming ls fairly typical for the area. many dont drive, never bothered to learn due to the layout of the place.
incidentally i took a new route in today and got a bit lost in the subterranean pedestrian system

 

[ufkacbln]

We did some work with Gosport Borough Council a few years ago.

Part of this was a stall in the Market on a Saturday

We got a very large map of the borough and started from scratch.

We asked cyclists to draw on the map the routes they took when they were on their bikes, and the routes they would "like to take"


What we ended up with was a total mess!

However it did light up the common routes and where links were needed

Some of these were simple... reassigning a wide path between two roads rather than a long detour, opening up an alleyway

Others were more complex where a circuitous route was improved by cycle facilities (and speed restriction) along a busy road

Most of the cycle network has now been built where cyclists used and wanted.

This is what is needed rather than an interpretation by a non-cyclists of census data.

 

[stowie]

because everybody counts their success in terms of pounds spent. Re-phase the lights at Elephant and Castle for ten grand? Not a chance! 20 million on dopey cycle lanes for two roundabouts? Just what the doctor ordered!

I accept this is a clear factor. There isn't a politician in power who doesn't like a grand scheme...

However, the political will to do anything that hampers motor use has been so lacking in the past that I suspect this is the reason why schemes which actually improve neighbourhoods for everyone, at the expense of through access for vehicles - have often died. A council transport department who are sceptical about designing for anything other than cars meet up with a few locals (normally business owners who don't live in the area) who are against any kind of change especially if it involves restricting car use, and the scheme is either watered down to such an extent that it is useless or abandoned.

I have seen this happen in consultations in the past. Even with the majority in favour of schemes, a couple of vocal opponents could destroy the scheme wholesale. I have even seen schemes reversed to remove pavement and add in parking on the behest of businesses who said they would go under without extra parking. Interestingly this parking is now full of the cars of the owners of the businesses....

 

[srw]

because everybody counts their success in terms of pounds spent. Re-phase the lights at Elephant and Castle for ten grand? Not a chance! 20 million on dopey cycle lanes for two roundabouts? Just what the doctor ordered!

I don't know what the City spent on rephasing the lights at Bank and on slightly remodelling the junction and rephasing the lights at Holborn Circus. But it can't have been much, and it's made a heck of a difference.

 

[Pete Owens]

We did some work with Gosport Borough Council a few years ago.

... and Gosport looks like it is getting something right:
http://datashine.org.uk/#zoom=13&la...TTT&table=QS701EW&col=QS701EW0010&ramp=YlOrRd