Anti log burner brigade

[MrGrumpy]

Just to add I had a look at the air quality round my way and further afield . Doesn’t seem to be much pollution. I’ll be honest our burner was fitted to provide additional heat , and more for a relaxing sit round the fire type thing . Luxury for me yes not a necessity. Its not on often , in fact I’ve only fired up yesterday after about 6-8 weeks. It’s just that’s the next thing on the list that folk want banned . Fun police sticking their noses in where they ought to ignore.

 

[cougie uk]

Wouldn’t disagree, but, the point was, I thought, hypocrisy, rather than the relative smells from car exhausts vs wood burners.

The OP wasn't talking about hypocrisy as far as I could see.

I mean moving to the countryside and complaining about wood fires might be as silly as moving by a church and complaining about the bells.

It's ridiculous that logburners have got fashionable for built up areas. If we all went with them we'd be bringing back the great smogs.

 

[rualexander]

Anyone walking around will know there's a wood burner on.
You won't smell a car going past.

You used to be able to smell a car going past easily, but that was reduced by all the emissions controls, but you can still smell them if the conditions are right.
So, simple solution to the wood burner issue (if you consider it an issue) is to regulate with emission controls.
Particulate filters are available from several manufacturers
e.g. https://woodstovefilter.co.uk/

 

[Gillstay]

Anyone walking around will know there's a wood burner on.
You won't smell a car going past.

These logburners are really bad for pollution.

Good clean burning stoves, with well seasoned logs are are sustainable solution to heating a well insulated house. I plant trees to help replace by burning, but see few indications of others doing much to offset their emissions, so yet again its not quite so clear cut.
I agree though that burning chip board and similar is terrible, in many ways.

 

[Gillstay]

The OP wasn't talking about hypocrisy as far as I could see.

I mean moving to the countryside and complaining about wood fires might be as silly as moving by a church and complaining about the bells.

It's ridiculous that logburners have got fashionable for built up areas. If we all went with them we'd be bringing back the great smogs.

Nope great smogs came from heavy industry and coal fires.

 

[FishFright]

Does this not raise the question of frequent hypocrisy? People with multiple cars per household, none of whom would ever consider walking half a mile to the corner shop, getting het up about someone else's unnecessary pollution while being quite happy to do the same themselves.

And it's not a question of better or worse. People either pollute unnecessarily or they don't. You're either good or you're bad. You're a criminal or you're law abiding. You're dead or alive. There are no shades of grey with these things.

We live in a world where people are too quick to stick their nose into other peoples business, when adtually setting their own house in order and leading by example would be a better tactic. If just a small percentage of people went the latter route we could create Camelot, but people would rather shift the blame on others than do anything to reduce their own offending, and as a result nothing ever really changes.

I find it's often those with multiple cars and all the lifestyle ticks that have log burners.

 

[Profpointy]

We have one. I guess I got it because it appealed as much as making a genuine rational judgement, but if I use the stove then that's the equivalent amount of gas not burned, so in part "a good thing". This far (5 years) I've only used found wood or leftovers from projects so there's some cost saving too, as well as said wood not ending up in landfill. It is supposedly compliant to the standards for city use, so I'd believed I was doing little harm and it was legit. Now that said, some of the more recent stuff I've read suggests even the compliant stoves (and not all are) are harmful in the particulates they emit, so it may not be entirely a good thing after all. I'm a bit more aware of such things having fairly recently acquired asthma and spent a couple of weeks breathing oxygen in hospital after a nasty bout of pneumonia.

Anyhow, on balance, assuming they are the pukka ones to standard with (somewhat) reduced particulates, I think leaving the gas in the ground and burning renewable wood, is surely better for global warming than adding more CO2 to the atmosphere. If we burn wood and replant, it'd be the same CO2 going round and round as it were. If the wood has a life as some manufactured item in between cutting down and going on the fire, that's even better.

I am conscious that if everybody had one maybe the local pollution might make this a bit leas tenable despite them being compliant to pollution standards

In the past I chose a diesel car because of the reduced CO2 emissions thinking I was doing "the right thing". There was no cost saving for me personally with the way my company car deal was structured, so if anything it was a slight sacrifice vs the more hooligan inclined petrol alternative. Anyhow the trend went against diesel subsequently for reasons of particulate pollution so it seem it was the wrong choice.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

The problem with wood burners is small particles that the send out into the atmosphere

which leads to a serious problem with localised pollution

However, in terms of CO2 emission it is clearly better than burning fossil fuels on a global basis

but in terms of local pollution it is - apparently - very bad
which is why it is not really a problem in a remote cottage in a valley with the wind blowing
but have an area where several people have them in an urban area then it becomes a problem

And unseasoned wood is far worse than seasoned wood - and chipboard and other such is - apparently - terrible!

 

[Rusty Nails]

A friend of mine lives in the Brecon Beacons, surrounded by natural woods and Forestry Commission land. He hasn't got a lot of money but with careful collection of already felled wood his heating and much of his cooking costs nothing.

 

[MrGrumpy]

difference with the stove on most of the day against the previous day . It’s considerable. Big house to heat here.

 

[rualexander]

This far (5 years) I've only used found wood or leftovers from projects so there's some cost saving too, as well as said wood not ending up in landfill. It is supposedly compliant to the standards for city use, so I'd believed I was doing little harm and it was legit.

If your found wood and leftovers from projects includes treated timber, pallet wood, furniture wood, plywood, chipboard, OSB, etc, then it is giving off toxic fumes when burnt as well as the fine particulates.

 

[MrGrumpy]

If your found wood and leftovers from projects includes treated timber, pallet wood, furniture wood, plywood, chipboard, OSB, etc, then it is giving off toxic fumes when burnt as well as the fine particulates.

Only seasoned wood burnt here , most of its been free from downed trees. I did buy some last year but never got through it. Didn’t buy any this year at all in fact I’ve got enough to last me next year now as just got some spruce ! Certainly not cheaper to buy wood with the prices round my way ! However I look at this as burning less gas which less ultimately being used all round inc generating electricity.

 

[BoldonLad]

The OP wasn't talking about hypocrisy as far as I could see.

I mean moving to the countryside and complaining about wood fires might be as silly as moving by a church and complaining about the bells.

It's ridiculous that logburners have got fashionable for built up areas. If we all went with them we'd be bringing back the great smogs.

Very true, I didn’t reply to the OP, I replied supporting the view of another poster.

 

[BoldonLad]

I think there's a few options. Solar. Batteries. Wind Turbines, hydro, nuclear.

Partially true. Not sure how wind or nuclear stores solar power, but, I am no expert.

 

[Time Waster]

The difference is with central heating efficiency not being helped by fashionable woodburner use there is no actual value in them other than user fashion or leisure use. Open fires are called bushcraft TV. I think a lot of mostly non-rural use is effectively entertainment or bushcraft TV.

However, for some cars are an unfortunate necessity to get to work or other necessary journeys. Hypocrisy applies to cars if you have other options. We live in a village with a branch rail line that I've been using for years to commute to work. I have to use the car to get to nearest town if I need to get anything. Food shopping can be done by delivery, efficient vehicle use. So if we got a woodburner we'd be the hypocrite for getting that pollution kit.

Nothing involving release of pollution is good, the best we can do is reduce our levels of pollution where possible. If anyone is supporting woodburners or car use because they like them but don't need them then there's no positive there. You're being a leisure polluter. Is that a good thing? I don't think so in most cases. I know ppl who drive to go for walks in their local lakeland fells who do that walking for mental health. I do doubt that anyone burns wood for mental health. So I can see how certain leisure car use can be justified for MH.

So this all comes from where your personal ethics are. You've got to live with your actions but own your choice. Non necessary wood burning and car use is simply polluting by choice not necessity. It's not about policing personal choice just encouraging ppl to understand the impact of their choice and perhaps consider how necessary it is or if it really is worth it.