Another "e-bike" death

[ColinJ]

The bikes are one issue, but the main issue is how people ride...

I very nearly got hit by an idiot on a (non electric) mountain bike this afternoon. I was standing at a bus stop when the aforementioned idiot and his equally idiotic pal raced at speed down the pavement just behind me. I was just stepping back at the time and hadn't heard them coming.

I watched them rapidly disappearing into the distance and noticed that the rider in front had a prosthetic right leg. I did wonder what could possibly have happened to his original leg below the knee...

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

On the topics of regulations at the point of sale
not sur eif I have posted this here before but I am in the middle of a 'moan' about an advert on Groupon for a Monster ebike MTB
They send me emails most days (as I requested) and this has been in the group of stiff on the emails for the last few weeks

It has a 500W motor and so is clearly not legal for use on the roads but it does NOT say this anywhere on the advert - ecen in the small print

I have complained to Groupon itself
they take the view that they just pass on offers from suppliers and whether or not it is illegal is not their problem
which is b*****s but they have not "passed it up to a higher level" and I moaned again

I have also complained to Trading Standards - who seemed confused about what to do but suggest I write to the DVLA and Advertising Standards Association (ASA)
I have gone to the ASA - which was more difficult that I expected - but I have now got a proper case ongoing


things is - there doesn;t seem to be any real impetus to stop them being advertised in a way that people will buy them and use them on the road
even the BBC article above - which is a good one - is a well written, professional and detailed article about the facts
written in exactly the way your average "man on the street" will not read
What we need is a proper Red Top headline about it with big writing and short sharp points


On the point about Groupon "not being responsible" I always use the concept that
if I bought up a large town centre shop - something like a closed down M&S size
and filled the whole windows space with large TVs all connected to a computer system
Then allowed anyone who wants to to send me an image advertising something and I will display it for some money

Then if one of those adverts was for - say - cigarettes and directed to be appealing to kids then I would not expect to be able to get out of any complaints by just pointing at the supplier and saying "He did It - noffin to do wif me mate"


but that is what Groupon said to me
and - to be fair - is what the like of Facebook and Twitter (etc) do when someone puts something on their sites that is not legal

 

[Jameshow]

Put pcso on them and the they can catch them and got on top of low level crime Inc burglaries....!

 

[Pale Rider]

On the topics of regulations at the point of sale
not sur eif I have posted this here before but I am in the middle of a 'moan' about an advert on Groupon for a Monster ebike MTB
They send me emails most days (as I requested) and this has been in the group of stiff on the emails for the last few weeks

It has a 500W motor and so is clearly not legal for use on the roads but it does NOT say this anywhere on the advert - ecen in the small print

I have complained to Groupon itself
they take the view that they just pass on offers from suppliers and whether or not it is illegal is not their problem
which is b*****s but they have not "passed it up to a higher level" and I moaned again

I have also complained to Trading Standards - who seemed confused about what to do but suggest I write to the DVLA and Advertising Standards Association (ASA)
I have gone to the ASA - which was more difficult that I expected - but I have now got a proper case ongoing


things is - there doesn;t seem to be any real impetus to stop them being advertised in a way that people will buy them and use them on the road
even the BBC article above - which is a good one - is a well written, professional and detailed article about the facts
written in exactly the way your average "man on the street" will not read
What we need is a proper Red Top headline about it with big writing and short sharp points


On the point about Groupon "not being responsible" I always use the concept that
if I bought up a large town centre shop - something like a closed down M&S size
and filled the whole windows space with large TVs all connected to a computer system
Then allowed anyone who wants to to send me an image advertising something and I will display it for some money

Then if one of those adverts was for - say - cigarettes and directed to be appealing to kids then I would not expect to be able to get out of any complaints by just pointing at the supplier and saying "He did It - noffin to do wif me mate"


but that is what Groupon said to me
and - to be fair - is what the like of Facebook and Twitter (etc) do when someone puts something on their sites that is not legal

The hump that these bikes are not illegal to sell or possess is a difficult one to get over.

Knives is another one, although we do now have an age restriction which sort of works in shops, but is almost impossible to police online.

Several on here have scoffed at the idea parents may be unwittingly providing their children with illegal bikes, but don't underestimate the complete disinterest of most people in all things cycling.

The recent deaths will have raised awareness among otherwise responsible parents who previously had no idea illegal ebikes were a thing.

However, it seems to me part of the problem is irresponsible parents/carers.

The auntie of one of the two lads killed seemed to take great pleasure in telling us all her nephew had been questioned by the police 30 times and never convicted.

It didn't occur to her that having coppers at the door every five minutes might indicate a teeny weeny problem with the behaviour of the lad concerned.

That type of family will always see the police as the enemy, even though the coppers are only doing their best to represent law and order.

 

[chris667]

It's tragic that this seems to be happening so much at the moment. I went to Ripley today, and Skegness yesterday. Both town centres full of Sur Ron type ebikes and electric scooters (how are they classified as bikes if they don't even have pedals?). The young man in Ripley today was easily doing 40mph down a pedestrian street.

A bit of me thinks that the only thing that sort of young lad would understand is having someone knock them off their bike and giving them a kicking. Not that I condone such things at all, but it really is hard to see what "normal" ways you can punish someone that doesn't really care about the law and isn't engaged anywhere else in their community.

What I do know is that as an ebike rider I am likely to be affected by this even though my bike is no faster than a conventional one. I bet the motor manufacturers are delighted at this.

I think an important step is to start making delivery companies like Deliveroo insist that all bikes used for deliveries are road legal. It strikes me that if they did their bit there would be a much smaller market for them.

Next, that insurers became much more strict about indoor charging of illegal/homemade ebikes. There have been a couple of very nasty fires from these heavily modified ebikes (as you may know, when lithium batteries start to catch fire they are inextinguishable).

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

I think an important step is to start making delivery companies like Deliveroo insist that all bikes used for deliveries are road legal. It strikes me that if they did their bit there would be a much smaller market for them.

WHAT a stupid idea

it might affect the profits of the companies
and teh shareholder have to live somehow in these days if rising prices and stuff

think of the people - please

(note - post may contain sarcasm)

 

[classic33]

WHAT a stupid idea

it might affect the profits of the companies
and teh shareholder have to live somehow in these days if rising prices and stuff

think of the people - please

(note - post may contain sarcasm)

Wouldn't affect the profits of the companies, the delivery riders are self employed.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Wouldn't affect the profits of the companies, the delivery riders are self employed.

Yes but they might need to increase what they [ay them to get enough to satisfy demand

 

[classic33]

Yes but they might need to increase what they [ay them to get enough to satisfy demand

They'll just switch emploi agencies.

 

[Vantage]

A few points if I may...
1. Ebikes are silent. Yes I agree. But so are non ebikes. So can we please stop using that bollocks as an excuse to have a dig at ebikers? It's getting old.
2. Cars, vans, trucks, motorbikes etc are required to be taxed and licensed and their users are required to pass a test yet the users (in their millions I might add) of such vehicles break speed laws on a daily basis so getting these ebikes to comply with those same rules isn't going to achieve didly squat.
The bikes themselves aren't the issue as @ColinJ rightly points out, it's the end users who are the problem.
Can I ask where we're getting the figures of 40-50mph from please? My own bike is powered by a 1000w motor capable of 160nm yet can only achieve 30mph on the flat without a headwind. I have it limited to 15.5mph as per the law as I don't really need to do 30mph but it can do it...just. A youtuber I sometimes watch built a 2000w bike and that only did around 35mph.
One final point. Are we going to start limiting the freewheeling speed of normal unpowered bikes too? It's not like anyone here can claim to brake at 15.5mph on a downhill is it?

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

A few points if I may...
1. Ebikes are silent. Yes I agree. But so are non ebikes. So can we please stop using that bollocks as an excuse to have a dif at ebikers? It's getting old.
2. Cars, vans, trucks, motorbikes etc are required to be taxed and licensed and their users are required to pass a test yet the users (in their millions I might add) of such vehicles break speed laws on a daily basis so getting these ebikes to comply with those same rules isn't going to achieve didly squat.
The bikes themselves aren't the issue as @ColinJ rightly points out, it's the end users who are the problem.
Can I ask where we're getting the figures of 40-50mph from please? My own bike is powered by a 1000w motor capable of 160nm yet can only achieve 30mph on the flat without a headwind. I have it limited to 15.5mph as per the law as I don't really need to do 30mph but it can do it...just. A youtuber I sometimes watch built a 2000w bike and that only did around 35mph.
One final point. Are we going to start limiting the freewheeling speed of normal unpowered bikes too? It's not like anyone here can claim to brake at 15.5mph on a downhill is it?

As far as the top speed of electric bike goes - I found this
The Sur Ron X top speed in Sport Mode is 32mph but with a simple modification that anyone can do, the top speed of the Sur Ron X is about 47mph. The top speed of the Sur Ron S model is 28mph and this speed can also be increased. The top speed of the Sur Ron Storm Bee is 50mph. These are stock speeds.

link here https://electricdirtbikes.net/how-fast-does-a-sur-ron-go/

 

[Jody]

Can I ask where we're getting the figures of 40-50mph from please?

To avoid confusion, the type of "ebike" in question is pictured below

It's not your average bicycle

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

To avoid confusion, the type of "ebike" in question is pictured below

It's not your average bicycle

View attachment 694412

yes
i.e. a motorbike with an electric motor instead of petrol
otherwise the same as any other motorbike

I wish the media would distinguish between them better!

 

[fossyant]

A few points if I may...
1. Ebikes are silent. Yes I agree. But so are non ebikes. So can we please stop using that bollocks as an excuse to have a dif at ebikers? It's getting old.
2. Cars, vans, trucks, motorbikes etc are required to be taxed and licensed and their users are required to pass a test yet the users (in their millions I might add) of such vehicles break speed laws on a daily basis so getting these ebikes to comply with those same rules isn't going to achieve didly squat.
The bikes themselves aren't the issue as @ColinJ rightly points out, it's the end users who are the problem.
Can I ask where we're getting the figures of 40-50mph from please? My own bike is powered by a 1000w motor capable of 160nm yet can only achieve 30mph on the flat without a headwind. I have it limited to 15.5mph as per the law as I don't really need to do 30mph but it can do it...just. A youtuber I sometimes watch built a 2000w bike and that only did around 35mph.
One final point. Are we going to start limiting the freewheeling speed of normal unpowered bikes too? It's not like anyone here can claim to brake at 15.5mph on a downhill is it?

So your bike is illegal with a 1000w motor then ? By a factor of four ! Even if limited, don't go having an accident on it, you could end up in trouble.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

To avoid confusion, the type of "ebike" in question is pictured below

It's not your average bicycle

View attachment 694412

Not a bicycle at all, it’s an electric motorbike