lukesdad
Guest
I thought you all did anyway, oh no silly me thats your usual riding pace
Another Cyclist dies at Bow Roundabout
- Thread starter gaz
- Start date
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deptfordmarmoset
Full time tea drinker
- Location
- Armonmy Way
There's room for everyone who shares. But when they take the lion's share, when (tipper trucks, in particular) kill and cyclists are merely collateral damage (pennies for the driver, thousands for the operator, untold grief for the victims and their families) in Traffic flow London, you have to ask when the killing will stop. They're not designed for urban streets. Worse, they're completely unsuitable for urban streets. Statistics show that clearly. And the cost of insurance doesn't work as a disincentive because the cost of the deaths, the emergency treatment, is exported to the families and the NHS. And the law....
An FoI request just revealed that TfL's buses kill or injure one every day (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-24923609). More collateral, though it's not restricted to cyclists.
I have wondered whether a ''We'll only hold you up when you knock us down'' campaign is overdue. Because it's true when it comes to cyclists. (And I note that the Bow roundabout has been holding up traffic all day since.) But I'm in a more of a ''Drive like *****, get taken off the road like *****'' mood right now.
RedRider
Pulling through
- Location
- Location Embrocation
Clearly unsuitable for sharing the roads in this city IMO.
totallyfixed
Veteran
- Location
- The only county without a McDonalds
A change in the law as per cyclists in most of Europe enjoy is the only way forward, the only problem then is getting people to respect and obey the law. Hit a cyclist in Germany, Netherlands, Belgium or Denmark for instance and you are in big trouble, no questions asked.
I used to live in Berlin where quite frankly the drivers are bonkers, but never felt unsafe on my bike.
I used to live in Berlin where quite frankly the drivers are bonkers, but never felt unsafe on my bike.
Dina
Member
Thank you all for caring. It was my sister, Venera Minakhmetova. If some of you were there or might think of any friends being there around the time of accident, please, try to find out as much as you can and write me on dina.minakhmetova@gmail.com . My sister should be the last victim.
deptfordmarmoset
Full time tea drinker
- Location
- Armonmy Way
My deepest sympathy to you, Dina. I'm afraid I was nowhere near so can't help as a witness but that doesn't make me less angry.
deptfordmarmoset
Full time tea drinker
- Location
- Armonmy Way
[QUOTE 2767736, member: 30090"]You try that with a truck tyre and it goes wrong it may well kill you.[/quote]
Don't get it wrong and it's the same.
Don't get it wrong and it's the same.
RedRider
Pulling through
- Location
- Location Embrocation
Sincere condolences. I'm sending you a private message. You should get a little red flag near the top of your screen to alert you.
totallyfixed
Veteran
- Location
- The only county without a McDonalds
I feel terrible for you and can empathise with what you are going through, I am sure you will receive masses of support from the cycling fraternity, and not just in London, there are a lot of us out there who would have been at the protest tonight but were prevented from doing so by distance.
This isn't going to go away this time, enough is enough. If there is anything at all we can do as cyclists to help, we will. Some good people to contact are LFGSS [London Fixed Gear & Single Speed], they will definitely respond and help in any way they can.
I personally think another protest should be organised where every cyclist in the country should descend on London and bring the city to a standstill.
Good luck with everything and best wishes.
This isn't going to go away this time, enough is enough. If there is anything at all we can do as cyclists to help, we will. Some good people to contact are LFGSS [London Fixed Gear & Single Speed], they will definitely respond and help in any way they can.
I personally think another protest should be organised where every cyclist in the country should descend on London and bring the city to a standstill.
Good luck with everything and best wishes.
Brandane
Legendary Member
- Location
- Costa Clyde
What exactly do you think this might achieve? It might cause some inconvenience and expense to the tipper owner, but not the drivers. Do you honestly think it will stop tippers coming into London? Not a chance, as long as there is a demand for their service, they will be there. How else do you plan on moving bulk quantities of whatever it is they are carrying?
What is happening is tragic, and too much of a coincidence that so many tippers are involved. I don't have the answers I'm afraid, but a campaign of vandalism is not going to work.
stowie
Legendary Member
[QUOTE 2767301, member: 30090"]Walk the bike across the junction - job done and no need to divert anywhere.[/quote]
Beano, I don't know if you know the junction, but there are no pedestrian phases on the lights at all. One of the absolutely shameful things about this junction is that there is absolutely no pedestrian access. So wheeling the bike across the junction will still require fine timing between the two sets of lights with both sets of traffic crossing your path. The added problem is that the junction openings are wide to allow vehicles to continue at high speed through the roundabout.
Add in a pedestrian phase which co-incides with a cyclist phase could work (conflict between the two modes would be minimal for reasons I could go into but it would be a bit long winded!) but this won't happen since the traffic flow is prioritised above this. This was the reason why the "early start" (which means cyclists using the cycle lane get a guaranteed red light) was implemented as opposed to cycle lights. Again I know the mechanics of the "early start" since i use Bow often and can go into details but it is difficult to describe without long winded explanations.
Bow is one of those junctions where any pedestrian / cyclist improvement will have to come at the expense of traffic flow. And so far TfL have shown - through their actions - which they believe is more important.
Edit : Pedestrian access is so bad on this junction that pedestrians - especially those with Children and the less mobile will actually catch a bus on one side and disembark on the other. Complete madness.
Beano, I don't know if you know the junction, but there are no pedestrian phases on the lights at all. One of the absolutely shameful things about this junction is that there is absolutely no pedestrian access. So wheeling the bike across the junction will still require fine timing between the two sets of lights with both sets of traffic crossing your path. The added problem is that the junction openings are wide to allow vehicles to continue at high speed through the roundabout.
Add in a pedestrian phase which co-incides with a cyclist phase could work (conflict between the two modes would be minimal for reasons I could go into but it would be a bit long winded!) but this won't happen since the traffic flow is prioritised above this. This was the reason why the "early start" (which means cyclists using the cycle lane get a guaranteed red light) was implemented as opposed to cycle lights. Again I know the mechanics of the "early start" since i use Bow often and can go into details but it is difficult to describe without long winded explanations.
Bow is one of those junctions where any pedestrian / cyclist improvement will have to come at the expense of traffic flow. And so far TfL have shown - through their actions - which they believe is more important.
Edit : Pedestrian access is so bad on this junction that pedestrians - especially those with Children and the less mobile will actually catch a bus on one side and disembark on the other. Complete madness.
RedRider
Pulling through
- Location
- Location Embrocation
Someone posted a design for safer trucks on this site recently. I can't find it I'm afraid. Replacing the existing fleet with something like this would be a massive expense for construction companies and they would need encouragement to do so. Encouragement comes in many forms.
stowie
Legendary Member
Dina, my sincere condolences for your loss. I cannot imagine what you are going through.
I use Bow regularly as do quite a few who post on this board. I have been away this week, so cannot help on witnesses, but will be very willing to help put pressure on making these horrible junctions more safe for cycling.
I use Bow regularly as do quite a few who post on this board. I have been away this week, so cannot help on witnesses, but will be very willing to help put pressure on making these horrible junctions more safe for cycling.
Dina so sorry for your loss. We all care very deeply and passionately about this.
in my opinion the only way to end this carnage here and all around the country is to simply get rid of super cycle highways and cycle lanes, introduce minimum overtaking distance and presumed liability with minimum prison term. Stop pissing around wasting public money on cycle lanes that do not work and only serve to give drivers some trumped up opinion that we are in their way and they own the frickin road!! And start punishing the drivers who are driving around with their frickin eyes shut.
in my opinion the only way to end this carnage here and all around the country is to simply get rid of super cycle highways and cycle lanes, introduce minimum overtaking distance and presumed liability with minimum prison term. Stop pissing around wasting public money on cycle lanes that do not work and only serve to give drivers some trumped up opinion that we are in their way and they own the frickin road!! And start punishing the drivers who are driving around with their frickin eyes shut.
