Andy Schleck

[jdtate101]

I'm guessing Cav got hung up on the 27% was too far behind to make the time cut-off and decided he didn't need the extra pain and suffering. Smart call, as there's no point in doing that unless you need to. Taylor may have decided he needed more practice at steep climbs so carried on, or pride just wouldn't let him abandon. I'm sure sprinters and GC guys looks at these things very differently.

 

[rich p]

Phinney desperately wanted to finish as he had a good chance of winning today's TT. Alex Dowsett made the cut so it would be nice to se him do well today.

 

[thom]

Interesting comments from within the RSNT camp re Andy. They do think that he has to make something of a post accident psychological recovery related to being able to race at high speeds, which was probably why he was dropped in the T-A TTT.

 

[beastie]

Interesting comments from within the RSNT camp re Andy. They do think that he has to make something of a post accident psychological recovery related to being able to race at high speeds, which was probably why he was dropped in the T-A TTT.

Yup, apparently he was in tears on a descent day before yesterday. I now feel bad about calling him a total fanny in his own thread.(even though he is) He was a shoot descender before his crash, so he is really gonna struggle now. If he can't sort it he might as well quit I am afraid. It wasn't a fear of descending that made him get off yesterday though, it was a lack of MTFU, brought on by a serious lack of training.

 

[thom]

Yup, apparently he was in tears on a descent day before yesterday. I now feel bad about calling him a total fanny in his own thread.(even though he is) He was a s*** descender before his crash, so he is really gonna struggle now. If he can't sort it he might as well quit I am afraid. It wasn't a fear of descending that made him get off yesterday though, it was a lack of MTFU, brought on by a serious lack of training.

If he is genuinely afraid then I don't think you can criticise him too much but funnily enough bike racing is about going fast and descending is a core skill for GC riders so he might just have to accept he has no future in that regard. Which is probably quite hard to deal with but to be honest, like you I doubt that's the only issue for him.

 

[rich p]

As I said above somewhere, he was achieving underwhelming form before the accident. I sympathise with his lack of moral fibre but being unhealthily fearless is a prerequisite for a pro.

 

[smutchin]

Remember the Galibier stage in the 2011 TdF? He made a brilliant attack and looked in danger of taking the overall lead, probably could have taken a big enough lead to win the overall, but bottled it and allowed the chasers to close the gap, then rode like a complete and utter fanny in the time trial the following day and was caught on the road by Evans.

He never had the head for bike racing even before he had his accident, and as beastie says, he was always a rubbish descender. Total fanny. He makes it very hard to have any sympathy for him.

 

[Crackle]

His Palmares is still impressive, he clearly has the potential to race and race well but as Thom said, maybe he's not a GC contender anymore.

 

[smutchin]

I don't think a one-trick pony like Schleck can ever be regarded as a proper GC contender. I'd put him in the same bracket as the likes of Bahamontes, R.Millar and Pantani, who were always strong enough going uphill to put themselves in contention but generally too weak in other disciplines to finish the job off. There's a backhanded compliment for you!

Compare and contrast with, say, Pedro Delgado, Carlos Sastre or Alberto Contador - climbing specialists who were/are genuine GC contenders.

To be fair, Schleck has achieved more than other supposed GC contenders like Rodriguez or Van Den Broeck.

d.

 

[redcard]

 

[montage]

I don't think a one-trick pony like Schleck can ever be regarded as a proper GC contender. I'd put him in the same bracket as the likes of Bahamontes, R.Millar and Pantani, who were always strong enough going uphill to put themselves in contention but generally too weak in other disciplines to finish the job off. There's a backhanded compliment for you!

Compare and contrast with, say, Pedro Delgado, Carlos Sastre or Alberto Contador - climbing specialists who were/are genuine GC contenders.

To be fair, Schleck has achieved more than other supposed GC contenders like Rodriguez or Van Den Broeck.

d.

Wasn't he only 39 seconds behind Contador in 2010? (Interestingly,am I right in thinking that Contador has only ever lost one grand tour he has entered since 2006 - not a bad loss rate in 6 years, suspensions notwithstanding)

 

[smutchin]

I've just been reminding myself of what actually happened in 2010. Contador did indeed "win" by 39 seconds - exactly the same margin that by which he finished ahead of Schleck in the stage where he attacked after Schleck shipped his chain.

Schleck actually did OK (by his standards) in the final individual time trial, losing only 31 seconds over 42.5km to Contador (although Contador setting off after Schleck would have known what he needed to do to seal the win). Schleck regularly loses minutes to his main rivals in time trials, which no genuine GC contender can afford to do.

 

[yello]

although Contador setting off after Schleck would have known what he needed to do to seal the win

I think that's an important factor. Maybe one that determined how Contador rode. Do enough but not more than necessary.

 

[Hont]

IIRC Contador struggled that day, constantly adjusting his position on the bike, and fell weeping into the arms of Vino (!) upon finishing. He then had a moan about the information coming from the car having been told that he was behind and losing the tour.

Contador's victories in grand tours (with the exception of TdF 2009 and Giro 2011) have often been by the skin of his teeth. For all his (deserved) dodgy reputation he does not dominate in anything like the manner of Armstrong and Indurain.

 

[The Couch]

... Compare and contrast with, say, Pedro Delgado, Carlos Sastre or Alberto Contador - climbing specialists who were/are genuine GC contenders

Can't speak for Delgado (I don't have enough miles on the counter to have seen him riding) but I wouldn't put Sastre and Contador in the same list. I would actually put Sastre and Schleck in the same group, in my opinion they are both climbing specialists (who will both loose a lot of time in a TT).
But maybe, my problem is that I don't quite understand your definition of a GC contender. Since I would put Rodriguez and VDB also in the same group as Schleck. They (unfortunately) are a bit too weak in TT to be a (multiple-)TdF threat.
Personaly I would put Armstrong, Contador, Ullrich, Indurain, Wiggins, Evans in a same category (you could make this list sooo much longer of course), which is "all-rounders" (the difference in their results are just depending on exactly how strong their climbing and/or TT is compared to their respective contendors of that time).
I would put people like earlier-mentioned-Sastre, Schleck, Pantani, Rodriguez ... as climbing specialists. Which doesn't mean they can't win the grand tours, but they just have to be climb very strong in the full tour, have the balls to attack from far away and (sometimes) have the brain to decide to focus on the Giro or Vuelta instead of the Tour de France.
And I guess the other way around will never work: people like Cancellara, Boardman, Martin will always loose too much time in the mountains.