Aliminium against Carbon
- Thread starter country joe
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Flying_Monkey
Recyclist
- Location
- Odawa
You can get some seriously good carbon rigs for under a grand now. Planet-X in particular, but also Focus, and Boardman's new one. If I was in the market for a new road bike right now, I think I would be buyign carbon. Just try not to crash it...
Paul_Smith SRCC
www.plsmith.co.uk
- Location
- Surrey UK
Comparing frame materials is a topic often mentioned, below is my take on the differences that I posted only recently but may be of interest here, I have listed all the popular types to give an overall a comparison that you may find of interest, I repeat this is my take on the differences, fully respect if others have a different view point.
Frame materials:
Frames made of Aluminium Alloy: Often simply referred to as ‘Alloy’ Light, cheap, reasonably robust although some do comment that aluminium alloy frames are not as comfortable when compared to the others; in part this is why most will not use aluminium alloy forks, most current roads bikes will use steel or carbon. Aluminium Alloy supposedly has the most performance drop off, which in fairness only really effects a racing cyclist where a few percent reduction in performance can make the difference (especially in their heads) of winning or coming second, in reality that applies more to the older lighter frames when Pro’ riders used extremely light versions (now most pro teams use Carbon), the modern budget frames use a heavier, more robust alloy and are of course aimed at a different style of riding. They are now the most common option in the mid range and upwards frame sets, fairly robust, as they will normally dent as apposed to crack. Normally the price dictates a purchase of a frame built in alloy, that does not mean that you will not be satisfied, you will see quite a few older frames still being ridden by club cyclists who find them perfectly adequate, plus many don’t have any complaints re’ comfort or performance drop off. Although most refer to these frames in general terms as ‘alloy’ if we are being pedantic then strictly speaking this is wrong, as steel is an alloy of carbon and iron, titanium is normally aluminum and vanadium, for example Van Nicholas use 3% Aluminium, 2.5% Vanadium and 94.5 Titanium, which they simply list as 3/2.5
Frames made of Carbon:With sufficient research and development can result in a bike that is comfortable, very light and efficient at transferring energy into propulsion as the material does not flex as much as other materials. Although strong they can be more delicate, where other materials dent, Carbon is more likely to crack, although I don't believe that they are as delicate as many fear them to be, quite a few have been ridden for a few years now and still going strong. Most common rider is a racing cyclist or someone who still likes to have a ‘best bike’ that can to an extent have a more precious existence than say audax or touring bike, where robustness may be more of a consideration. Most production high end ‘Race’ and ‘Sportive’ bikes will these days use carbon frames, we are also starting to see this technology filter down into the mid price range models. In recent years high end mountain bikes have also started to use Carbon frames, note they are not road bikes with different geometry, they are designed to be far more robust and impact resistant than road bikes for obvious reasons.
Frames made of Steel : Very durable (if built correctly) with low performance drop off with age. These days still a popular choice for club riders who like to know that their frame has been built in the traditional way by craftsmen. Production bikes built with steel are less common, although it remains popular with the companies that still cater for touring bikes.
Many cyclist like the fact that they are having something built often to their own specification, you can personalise your frame with your own braze on items, light bosses, extra bottle bosses etc, you can even chose your own colour. In the past all top quality frames were purchased this way, as it was how you got exactly what you wanted, both in quality and especially frame size. The old diamond shape frame being less adaptable in terms of variations in riding position than the modern sloping top tube frames; even Lance Armstrong used an off the peg frame size. Although I fall into this category, as in uses as steel frame, not Lance Armstrong, I have to admit that modern off the peg frames are now so good both in terms of production quality and the flexibility that the modern geometry gives you to achieve the perfect riding position, that the necessity to have a bike made to measure is less of an issue. In more recent years steel frames are starting to make something of a come back, as many realise that in many ways steel is a better option than aluminium alloy, especially when it comes to comfort.
Frames made of Titanium : Becoming more popular, virtually no performance drop as they don’t even rust, comfortable, light, yet robust. Performance wise not quite as responsive as carbon or alloy (alloy when new that is), although really it is that not far off, some pro riders now even use Titanium like Magnus Bakstedt a former Paris Roubaix winner, other Pro Teams used Titanium frames painted up to look like normal production bikes of their team sponsors, often used in races where comfort can become an issue, for example over the cobbles of the Paris Roubaix, as riders are bashed about so much it can lead to fatigue.
The down side is that Titanium is very hard to work/build with; so most don't! On the upside because of this the workman ship simply has to be of top quality and it shows, most Titanium frames do look and are very well made. Most common used when someone wants a fast, responsive, light comfortable yet robust, durable bike and of course where price is not so much of an issue. Titanium is therefore and ideal choice for longer day rides/audax/touring/sportive bikes.
Frame material conclusion :, Opinion is often much divided when it comes to frame materials and if it effects how the bike rides or not. Many will state that they can tell a huge difference and by the same token many will state that the frame material makes no difference at all. I would say I fall somewhere between both, I have ridden a huge variety over the years, when riding bikes similar in set up in nearly every respect apart from the frame material I would say that I can't tell a huge difference, but I can feel more than none that's for sure.
A quality designer and manufacturer will be sensitive to the material they have used, so I would expect the bike to perform how it is supposed to and give you good long service, regardless of what it is made of. So although the frame material is indeed a consideration I believe that many are far more concerned about what they should or shouldn't use than perhaps they need be.
Paul_Smith
www.corridori.co.uk
Frame materials:
Frames made of Aluminium Alloy: Often simply referred to as ‘Alloy’ Light, cheap, reasonably robust although some do comment that aluminium alloy frames are not as comfortable when compared to the others; in part this is why most will not use aluminium alloy forks, most current roads bikes will use steel or carbon. Aluminium Alloy supposedly has the most performance drop off, which in fairness only really effects a racing cyclist where a few percent reduction in performance can make the difference (especially in their heads) of winning or coming second, in reality that applies more to the older lighter frames when Pro’ riders used extremely light versions (now most pro teams use Carbon), the modern budget frames use a heavier, more robust alloy and are of course aimed at a different style of riding. They are now the most common option in the mid range and upwards frame sets, fairly robust, as they will normally dent as apposed to crack. Normally the price dictates a purchase of a frame built in alloy, that does not mean that you will not be satisfied, you will see quite a few older frames still being ridden by club cyclists who find them perfectly adequate, plus many don’t have any complaints re’ comfort or performance drop off. Although most refer to these frames in general terms as ‘alloy’ if we are being pedantic then strictly speaking this is wrong, as steel is an alloy of carbon and iron, titanium is normally aluminum and vanadium, for example Van Nicholas use 3% Aluminium, 2.5% Vanadium and 94.5 Titanium, which they simply list as 3/2.5
Frames made of Carbon:With sufficient research and development can result in a bike that is comfortable, very light and efficient at transferring energy into propulsion as the material does not flex as much as other materials. Although strong they can be more delicate, where other materials dent, Carbon is more likely to crack, although I don't believe that they are as delicate as many fear them to be, quite a few have been ridden for a few years now and still going strong. Most common rider is a racing cyclist or someone who still likes to have a ‘best bike’ that can to an extent have a more precious existence than say audax or touring bike, where robustness may be more of a consideration. Most production high end ‘Race’ and ‘Sportive’ bikes will these days use carbon frames, we are also starting to see this technology filter down into the mid price range models. In recent years high end mountain bikes have also started to use Carbon frames, note they are not road bikes with different geometry, they are designed to be far more robust and impact resistant than road bikes for obvious reasons.
Frames made of Steel : Very durable (if built correctly) with low performance drop off with age. These days still a popular choice for club riders who like to know that their frame has been built in the traditional way by craftsmen. Production bikes built with steel are less common, although it remains popular with the companies that still cater for touring bikes.
Many cyclist like the fact that they are having something built often to their own specification, you can personalise your frame with your own braze on items, light bosses, extra bottle bosses etc, you can even chose your own colour. In the past all top quality frames were purchased this way, as it was how you got exactly what you wanted, both in quality and especially frame size. The old diamond shape frame being less adaptable in terms of variations in riding position than the modern sloping top tube frames; even Lance Armstrong used an off the peg frame size. Although I fall into this category, as in uses as steel frame, not Lance Armstrong, I have to admit that modern off the peg frames are now so good both in terms of production quality and the flexibility that the modern geometry gives you to achieve the perfect riding position, that the necessity to have a bike made to measure is less of an issue. In more recent years steel frames are starting to make something of a come back, as many realise that in many ways steel is a better option than aluminium alloy, especially when it comes to comfort.
Frames made of Titanium : Becoming more popular, virtually no performance drop as they don’t even rust, comfortable, light, yet robust. Performance wise not quite as responsive as carbon or alloy (alloy when new that is), although really it is that not far off, some pro riders now even use Titanium like Magnus Bakstedt a former Paris Roubaix winner, other Pro Teams used Titanium frames painted up to look like normal production bikes of their team sponsors, often used in races where comfort can become an issue, for example over the cobbles of the Paris Roubaix, as riders are bashed about so much it can lead to fatigue.
The down side is that Titanium is very hard to work/build with; so most don't! On the upside because of this the workman ship simply has to be of top quality and it shows, most Titanium frames do look and are very well made. Most common used when someone wants a fast, responsive, light comfortable yet robust, durable bike and of course where price is not so much of an issue. Titanium is therefore and ideal choice for longer day rides/audax/touring/sportive bikes.
Frame material conclusion :, Opinion is often much divided when it comes to frame materials and if it effects how the bike rides or not. Many will state that they can tell a huge difference and by the same token many will state that the frame material makes no difference at all. I would say I fall somewhere between both, I have ridden a huge variety over the years, when riding bikes similar in set up in nearly every respect apart from the frame material I would say that I can't tell a huge difference, but I can feel more than none that's for sure.
A quality designer and manufacturer will be sensitive to the material they have used, so I would expect the bike to perform how it is supposed to and give you good long service, regardless of what it is made of. So although the frame material is indeed a consideration I believe that many are far more concerned about what they should or shouldn't use than perhaps they need be.
Paul_Smith
www.corridori.co.uk
OP
OP
country joe
New Member
- Location
- Caledonia
Thanks for that good post.
brilliant post paul. do you have any information on breaking points of the differant materials when applied to bicycles. The bike im looking at has some carbon in it (forks + seatpost) im guess im wondering if its worth buying from a weight vs durability perpective.
"Although strong they can be more delicate, where other materials dent, Carbon is more likely to crack, although I don't believe that they are as delicate as many fear them to be,"
"Although strong they can be more delicate, where other materials dent, Carbon is more likely to crack, although I don't believe that they are as delicate as many fear them to be,"
jayce
New Member
- Location
- south wales
I was going to say something but i read pauls post and forgot ,,,,
jayce
New Member
- Location
- south wales
Oh yes if you can afford carbon get one they look better you might start racing you never know ,but ally is good so its up to you what ever you like i got carbon and i dont race until ,,,the dragon going to give it ago 
Paul_Smith SRCC
www.plsmith.co.uk
- Location
- Surrey UK
just4fun said:
I dare say it would be possible to obtain data frame tubes made of steel,Aluminium Alloy or Titanium as these would be relatively consistent, Carbon however can be formed into frames in such a different variety of ways that you would really need to look at each specific frame.
This was one reason that when I was referring to carbon frames I mentioned “With sufficient research and development....” for example both the frames below are FACT 9 carbon, but expect the Carbon ATB frame to be much more impact resistant when compared to the Carbon road bike, for sure these are extremes to illustrate that there will be differences, but differences will apply with road frames as well.
Although I have no data as such, I did come across this Video: Carbon vs Aluminum vs Titanium that may be of interest; although note this appears to be a video made to highlight how good Titanium is, I would imagine that carbon/steel/Aluminium Alloy specific manufacturers could produce something that shows their materials more favourably.
I would repeat what I mentioned in my conclusion; “A quality designer and manufacturer will be sensitive to the material they have used, so I would expect the bike to perform how it is supposed to and give you good long service, regardless of what it is made of”; this applies especially to carbon frames.
You mentioned "The bike im looking at has some carbon in it (forks + seatpost)", carbon forks you would normally replace after an impact, unlike steel which will bend to show damage, carbon forks may not, modern quality carbon seatpins are as reliable as any.
Paul_Smith
www.corridori.co.uk