Advice on a first cycle/camping trip?

[psmiffy]

My first tour was when I was 16 - a friend and I cycled to Koln from the Dutch border - a day there - a day in Koln and a day back - I had the tent on a rack and a very small pair of panniers - my friend a large rucksac - he managed OK on his curry's three speed

Experience though tells me that panniers are the way to go

 

[RedBike]

JakesDad - Thanks for that, I thought touring was a little different to relatively small distance rides so I didn't think to look in there but I shall do now, thanks!

Arch - Thank you that is incredibly informative and covers most points i've been thinking about. All the equipment you mentioned I will be taking I think, maybe a few more bits + bobs. And as for where we're going, it'll be from Luton to Epping Forest.
We did have planned to go to Southend from Luton in 4 days, but being the worried parents I have, they thought it was ridiculous so I must prove to them I can do it before they'll let me unfortunately!!

RedBike - thank you for that, would you reccommend I carry on my bike or via a rucksack?

Snorri - Thanks! I do hope it gets addictive, the thought of doing it is pretty impressing I just cant wait to get out there and do it!

I've done a few off-road cycle tours now (They're on my blog somewhere).

I've tried a trailer, panniers and rucksack.

The trailer was a nightmare anywhere theres gates or on any section that requires pushing. I wouldn't use a trailer off-road again. (With all that extra weight behind the bike you had to push a lot aswell!)

Using Panniers: On the easier 'road; sections I greatly prefered the weight on the bike rather than me. However, when the going got rough that extra weight all over the rear wheel started to really effect the bikes handeling. You couldn't unweight the rear wheel so you crashed into every lump and bump and the front of the bike became VERY skitish and prone to diving under braking. I was really struggling to keep control of the bike. Panniers are definately the way to go for touring on the road but imo they're not ideal for off-road

A rucksack is by far the best approach off-road. The bikes handling is relatively un-effected and its just as easy to push. The disadvantage of using a bag is they're not as comfortable as panniers and you can't take as much stuff.

 

[Globalti]

A rucksack is by far the best approach off-road. The bikes handling is relatively un-effected and its just as easy to push. The disadvantage of using a bag is they're not as comfortable as panniers and you can't take as much stuff.

I disagree strongly. I used to do Polaris trailquests carrying all my camping and other gear for 2 days. A well-packed pair of panniers correctly attached to a rack is far superior to a rucsac because the bike takes the weight. If the panniers are bungeed firmly to the rack in addition to the normal fixings they become a solid mass attached in the best place, on either side of the rear wheel where they affect handling very little. If they flap around they will upset handling. I could blast down hills off road faster than competitors with rucsacs because my CofG was lower and behind me and I felt confident. The only time panniers don't work is when you want to lift the bike over a gate or stile but you shouldn't need to do that if you are riding bridleways and lanes. The only other issue can be that riders with big feet can find their heels brushing the fronts of the panniers but a bit of molehusbandry with the bungees will sort that out.

 

[Globalti]

To the OP: don't rely on lighting fires! The materials might be wet and a good cooking fire needs lots of hot embers, which will take as long as an hour to build up. If you try to cook on a smoky yellow flame cooking will be slow, your equipment will get filthy and your food will taste smoky.

Best bet is small gas ring that screws into the top of a gas canister. One short canister is enough for a weekend as long as you're not melting snow.

 

[MrMonster]

Helen, that's exactly what I was thinking! Get a feel for it before I go and spend money on something that potentially I may never want to do again, unlikely though!

Psmiffy, I will try panniers if I enjoy the touring, but until I see if I like touring or not, and this shortish distance will be the experience I need, i'll stick with what I have to hand which unfortunately is just a hiking rucksack :S

RedBike, thank you for that! I have only ever used rucksacks off road mountain biking for exactly that reason, so if anything was to affect the bike, it wouldn't be the weight difference on either side. Thanks!

Globalti, i'm no expert, but surely whether or not the weight is on your bike or your back, you're still pulling the weight right? I can't disagree however because i've never tried panniers, although I respect your input!
And as for lighting fires, I never thought about what you mentioned, but I think we probably will settle for just a single canister stove, it was just the weight we were looking at avoiding but you show a fair point, which has made me change my mind about that so thanks!

 

[Globalti]

Yes, the bike carries the weight but your overall weight remains the same. In effect you hardly notice the extra weight because on a typical MTB with a really low granny gear you just end up pulling a couple of gears shorter up the hills and plodding up a little slower. If you use a rucsac all the weight goes through your spine and then your pelvis to the saddle and I've seen people lying by the trail groaning and clutching their arses in agony on Polaris, where you ride for 7 hours on the Saturday and 5 on the Sunday.

On bike choice I would suggest you use your MTBs and just fit them with slicks or commuter tyres, which will make them a lot faster. Pumped up hard these tyres will roll along nice and smooth and fast. MTBs also generally will handle a rack well and will have a wider range of gears than a road bike, unless you get one with a triple chainring setup.

Once you've got all this sorted out you need to do an overnight trip out somewhere to test everything. Take bike tools for adjustments and repairs. Then get back and throw out every bit of kit that you didn't touch during the trip, because you'll have set off about 50% overweight with loads of stuff you think you might need!

For sleeping nothing beats a Thermarest mattress. They weigh about double what a foam mattress weighs but take up half the space. I don't know about you but I always think it looks naff and amateurish to ride with a huge roll of mattress strapped to your rack; I like my setup to be neat, compact and all contained within the panniers if possible. Pack stuff like waterproofs and food near the top where you can reach it on the road without unpacking everything. Carry a Camelback with essentials like phone, tools, water and munchies, sunglasses etc. In summer take a couple of mosquito coils to keep the midges away from your camp area. If your panniers or sack aren't waterproof pack clothes in a plastic bag;;you'd be amazed how much water a rucsac full of clothes can absorb!

If you haven't tried it, get some energy powder to add to your water; it will make the whole ride a lot more bearable. I use SIS because it's made near my home and I like the guys who make it. Oh, and it works too!

 

[MrMonster]

Globalti, that makes complete sense. I don't intend on having a sore ass but until I manage to grab myself some panniers, i'll have to make do.
We're doing a 30 mile round trip this Sunday. We have basically just set out a route, where the furthest we are from home is 5 miles to complete so we can see how we bare with the weight in a rucksack and the distance of course, if it's all too uncomfortable, without doubt we'll invest in some panniers and a rack.

Are slicks expensive at all? We will be using some rougher courses such as bridleways and maybe the odd byway if we come across one to give us a bit of a change of terrain and maybe a little adrenaline, just to strengthen our spirits a little. If we're planning on doing this, should we stick to the 3" MTB tyres?

The overnight trip, hopefully the one we're doing is a start to see if we enjoy it, will be done probably a few weeks after the one we've planned. Which will be ideally exactly what you explained, to test our gear and bikes. We may even invest in some road bikes for some longer rides if we do plan on keeping to this hobby.

For mattress, I will look into what you said, but would shoving a tonne of leaves under our tent be enough for now? Natures pillow? No weight on our backs and easily altered if necessary. Not sure if anyones tried this method?
I agree however with having the rolls on open view looking rather unpleasant. Important stuff near the top, got it!
I do have some Dextrose powder, I use it for my bodybuilding which I have been doing for several years, so I should be ok taking the energy powder/caffiene pills for the journey as I do them fairly regularly already. Good suggestion though!

Thanks alot for your input, it's been really helpful!!

 

[Banjo]

If your looking for a road bike for light touring this could be worth a bid.http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/New-Dawes-Aud...ZViewItemQQptZUK_Bikes_GL?hash=item414e0cc12c

Make sure it fits you though .Its a 56 cm frame .I was thinking of going for it but have a shed full allready.Its a 2007 model The title is a typo.

 

[MrMonster]

Thanks Banjo! I did look at it, lovely looking bike, but it's quite a margin out of my budget! So unfortunately i'll have to let someone else own that one. Thank you for the consideration though, I do very much appreciate it.

 

[Globalti]

On tyre choice: surely you don't have 3" tyres on your MTBs? Probably 2.2 or similar, anyway they will be slow and noisy - that noise is the sound of those knobs squirming under your weight and wasting all your energy. Knobblies are fine on a soft surface but on tarmac you need something like a slick or a commuter tyre in 1.6 width or even less, pumped up to the maximum pressure. You won't believe how much faster this makes the bike. On anything but wet mud you will be fine; the bike might feel a bit skittish on gravel but otherwise it will be fast and smooth.

On mattresses: ditch these romantic ideas about lighting fires and sleeping on leaves! You need to be able to get your tent set up and get a brew going fast, then a meal, then get into warm dry clothes and a dry sleeping bag with good insulation from the ground. If you sleep badly you will be physically tired the next day but worse than this your morale will suffer and you'll feel like giving up. Don't underestimate the importance of your mental condition; you must take as much care of your minds as your bodies in order to stay fit for the trip and strong enough to cope with whatever disasters happen. There won't be any leaves lying around in spring or summer and if there were, they would compress down and give no insulation. If you can't afford a Thermarest then a foam mattress costs a few quid and is better than nothing. If you want to save weight and space get a hip-length version, not full length. Carry a woolly hat for camp and for sleeping in.

Not sure about this Dextrose powder - that's a sugar, I think, so it will give short-term energy. You need Maltodextrin for long-term energy, look at the ingredients panel to see if it's present. Maltodextrin is a complex carbohydrate and is the basis for all kinds of things like Cup-a-Soup and various recovery drinks for convalescents like Build-Up and Complan. Get a few sachets of Complan from Boots as you can neck one each in the evening to replace lost energy. It tastes like milk shake if you make it up cold.

What about food? Freeze-dried is the way to go for a long mountain trip where weight matters but for an overnighter you're better getting something in a sachet that just needs warming up.

 

[MrMonster]

Your correct, I assumed they were 3" because they look alot bigger than my friends MTB tyres, but on the wall it says 2.2". So I guess they're 2.2!
I definitely need to invest in some of those tyres though, could you perhaps point me to a pair when you get time?

It's not as clever as it sounded in my head then eh? Lol A single canister stove, and a decent mat is worth carrying the weight I guess. Will a yoga mat do? I have one of those handy, not to thick but it's rather comfy on a laminated floor not sure outdoors though. If not, i'll get one of those you said about!

Maltodextrin, that's the one I have. I was getting confused with the Creadex I have in the cupboard that I never used. That Complan sachet you mentioned, do I just put it in warm water or something?

Food wise, we'll probably end up stopping at a shop close to the end of our journey and picking up a few bananas etc and something to cook later on, a nice warm Cup-Of-Soup sounds appetizing for a breakfast though!

Ty again!

 

[Matthames]

Too often I see a lot of people under estimate the amount of effort it takes to build and maintain a decent camp fire. After a day of riding a bike, having to collect wood and then chop it up would probably be too much. As for being a controlled camp fire, camp fires can very easily get out of control if they are not kept an eye on, the mass can collapse and send a shower of embers all over the place setting anything flammable nearby alight. A camp stove is much less hassle, with mine I can have it set up and a brew in my hands within 5 minutes, with a fire it would be at least an hour or more depending on the quality of wood in the surrounding area.

If you do decide to go down the camp fire route you would need something to chop up the wood. The best thing for the job when camping lightweight is the Bahco Laplander pruning saw, it is an excellent piece of kit.

Also I recommend using self-inflating mattresses, they roll down small and they give you the insulation from the ground you need.

 

[MrMonster]

I do camp quite often as I used to do alot of off roading in 4x4s, so unless it rains heavily, we may do the campfire idea. But as you say, a canister would be much easier so that's very much in our grasps at the moment if we can manage to get hold of one. The only problem is, for the entire trip, both of us we have about £100 for gear, and we're already struggling at the moment, Imean £20 for helmet that leaves £80 each. So that's where the camp fire idea come from. We need permission from the council yet, so if it's unable to be permitted then we'll have no choice but to use a stove.

 

[Matthames]

Food wise, we'll probably end up stopping at a shop close to the end of our journey and picking up a few bananas etc and something to cook later on, a nice warm Cup-Of-Soup sounds appetizing for a breakfast though!

If at all possible buy your food as you go along Money is a lot easier to carry than food.

As for breakfast, my personal favourite is to dig out the frying pan that comes with my camping saucepan set and do a nice fry up. The fat gives you long term energy to keep going through the day. If you want ketchup or brown sauce, then your best bet is to pick up those sachets from fast food places.

 

[MrMonster]

Great idea on the sachets! How can I get a compact frying pan though? Lol. Wouldn't mind a fry up tbh! We was thinking of stopping to get a macdonalds of something, for the energy levels, but a few people have said don't eat alot of fat when riding?