A welcome approach by WMP to cycle safety

[mjr]

I don't see anything in that article about hi-viz cycling wear - only the legally required lights.

I think it's what "remind cyclists to be more visible" in that article meant.

 

[mjr]

No. Not "exactly". MJR is saying that cops suggesting Hi-viz is the same as Nazis/Occupying forces making Jews wear the star of david.

Similar, not the same. It's part of othering. I'm not saying we're in imminent danger of being carted off to death, but if we tolerate being dressed up ugly, then after a bit more cyclist blaming and motorist excusing, we may well get banned from the roads because we simply can't be trusted not to suck motor vehicles into us or something.

But I'll try to remember not to use the term again here, although I didn't think it up - it's in common usage elsewhere. Spirit of the rules

 

[classic33]

I think it's what "remind cyclists to be more visible" in that article meant.

Except they say at the bottom of the piece. My bold.
"Many cyclists will still choose to commute to and from work; from a safety perspective motorists need to take added care to look out for cyclists. Equally cyclists need lights on their bikes not only to avoid prosecution but to keep them safer and visible when riding after sunset."

And a piece from the Highway Code was the reference
"The campaign targeted both drivers who fail to follow the Highway Code rules on safe passing distances when overtaking cyclists, but also served to remind cyclists to be more visible and ensure they have lights on and lit after sunset with a Be Bright Be Seen awareness message."

 

[Rickshaw Phil]

Similar, not the same. It's part of othering. I'm not saying we're in imminent danger of being carted off to death, but if we tolerate being dressed up ugly, then after a bit more cyclist blaming and motorist excusing, we may well get banned from the roads because we simply can't be trusted not to suck motor vehicles into us or something.

But I'll try to remember not to use the term again here, although I didn't think it up - it's in common usage elsewhere. Spirit of the rules

I get what you are saying but the attempt to justify yourself is not doing you any favours. I'll be more clear:

1) Comparing wearing high viz on a bike to the persecution of the Jewish people under the Nazis is insulting and highly inappropriate.

2) Your analogy is faulty. I commonly see horse riders, dog walkers, motorcyclists, delivery drivers, maintenance workers, bin men. school groups and the police wearing yellow high vis. It does not single one out as a cyclist.

If I see the phrase "yellow star jacket" again it will be removed and further action may be taken as you are now aware that it is not considered acceptable.

 

[Randombiker9]

I get what you are saying but the attempt to justify yourself is not doing you any favours. I'll be more clear:

1) Comparing wearing high viz on a bike to the persecution of the Jewish people under the Nazis is insulting and highly inappropriate.

2) Your analogy is faulty. I commonly see horse riders, dog walkers, motorcyclists, delivery drivers, maintenance workers, bin men. school groups and the police wearing yellow high vis. It does not single one out as a cyclist.

If I see the phrase "yellow star jacket" again it will be removed and further action may be taken as you are now aware that it is not considered acceptable.

yeah i agree and 1st one could be racist. Also Security guards wear hi-viz. Also animals wear hi-viz sometimes like dog coats and horses have hi-viz on them etc... Runners also wear hi-viz etc... the list is endless.

 

[jarlrmai]

They don't just wear them because they think its looks nice they wear them out of some sort of feeling that it makes them safer even though it doesn't really. They all share a commonality with cyclists, their main source of injury when out in public to is motor vehicles.

 

[boydj]

They don't just wear them because they think its looks nice they wear them out of some sort of feeling that it makes them safer even though it doesn't really. They all share a commonality with cyclists, their main source of injury when out in public to is motor vehicles.

And lots of people wear them as part of a health & safety requirement from their employer or elsewhere - whether they are actually required or not.

I once had to walk out of a train the trainer course when required to wear hi-viz and a helmet while doing low speed manoeuvres on grass. Health & safety gone mad.

 

[mjr]

I'll be more clear:

1) Comparing wearing high viz on a bike to the persecution of the Jewish people under the Nazis is insulting and highly inappropriate.

It was only comparing it to the labelling, not all the persecution. It's easy to make it worse by exaggerating the comparison into something else. I thank @jarlrmai for addressing mistaken point 2 as I'm uncomfortable correcting a mod issuing public warnings based on such interpretations.

 

[jefmcg]

It was only comparing it to the labelling, not all the persecution. It's easy to make it worse by exaggerating the comparison into something else. I thank @jarlrmai for addressing mistaken point 2 as I'm uncomfortable correcting a mod issuing public warnings based on such interpretations.

The comparison is rubbish. Jews were required to wear the star every time they left the house, so everyone would know they were Jewish. Cyclists are only "required" (not really) to wear Hi-viz if they are on the bike. And - this may not be obvious to everyone - there is another clue to telling if someone is a cyclist when they are riding a bike: the bicycle under their arse.

When cyclists are forced to wear hi-viz, even after they have locked their bikes, for 24 hours a day, then you can compare it to the Star of David.

I am rapidly losing the respect I had for you.

 

[jarlrmai]

Nazi comparisons is an internet trope so common it has its own 'law,' I too find it distasteful. Such rank hyperbole from usually respectful people though speaks of a deep frustration.

High vid recomendations just feel like another cop-out from a society that can't or doesn't want to deal with the motoring death/injury epidemic, like a talisman against evil spirits, except the spirits are just people in big metal boxes. I see kids walking to school wearing them so that the parents of other children won't run them over in a rush to park as close to the school entrance as possible and it makes me sad.

 

[SpokeyDokey]

Mod note:

Back on topic please. Any further tangential discussions will force the closure of the thread.

 

[classic33]

I think it's what "remind cyclists to be more visible" in that article meant.

 

[Randombiker9]

View attachment 402902

But they also need to do it themsevles.
because i was cycling and a police van overtook closely just before a roundabout. i didn't say anything best not to argue with police authorities. You would think out of traffic. Police veichles are the least likely to do stupid things because they are in charge of the law.
(Especially after the scheme as well)

 

[classic33]

But they also need to do it themsevles.
because i was cycling and a police van overtook closely just before a roundabout. i didn't say anything best not to argue with police authorities. You would think out of traffic. Police veichles are the least likely to do stupid things because they are in charge of the law.
(Especially after the scheme as well)

You feel it was close, report it to them.

 

[Randombiker9]

You feel it was close, report it to them.

Whats the point as theres no evidence?