A response from SHARP

[very-near]

It wasn't so long ago I asked you for this figure, and your response was to accuse me of being prejudiced against bikers.

I take it that you understand now that it's a significant enough amount to have to take it into account when considering road safety for bikers?

I'd say that in sole vehicle accidents, road contamination is a major factor in regard to motorcycles.

I've come off on black ice, gravel, and diesel in the time I've ridden on the road, and 'the marbles' (shreds of rubber of tyres) on the track.

Come to think of it, of the 'offs' I've had over the years when I've been riding the bike, they have all been due to road contamination or black ice (the black ice was in a straight line at about 25mph when I hit a pothole when I was 17).

 

[very-near]

You've reverted to your opinion now. Which is fine, but I'd like to see some figures.

There is a significant number of bikers killed every year as a result of losing control due to inappropriate speed (and not necessarily speeding). And the only step required to eliminate this risk is to work on the rider's competence.

How do we get this done?

Well, 'inappropriate speed' is such a broad term isn't it. It is applied to any accident which involves a single vehicle. If you crash on black ice, it is attributed to 'inappropriate speed'. If you hit gravel, and the bike goes from under you - 'inappropriate speed' again. If you come off on Diesel on a roundabout - yep 'inappropriate speed' again IE, if you were going slowly enough (1mph) you would have stayed on.

Riding a motorcycle involves risk, and those who do have to weigh up the odds (risk management). For those who already have their full license, the best way of improving their odds are to go back and train again to up their hazard perception, and machine handling skills.

It takes far more skill to ride a motorcycle than drive a car as modern cars are so forgiving to driver error.

 

[very-near]

I believe that you know what I'm saying. Which, in terms of losing control of a bike (and your road surface examples aside), means riding at speed inappropriate for the road which results in you losing control of the bike. Flowers on trees are a good indicator. And this is the area that ought to be addressed.

Yes, and that's my point. What do you do to avoid those who don't weigh up the risk and blat their bike into a wall climbing out of Llangollen killing themselves?

Well with any and all groups, there is an element of 'natural selection'.

We see it with pedestrians, horse riders, car drivers, cyclists, skateboarders, motorcylists, HGV drivers etc.

The primary reason why motorcyclists are more vulnerable (covered in the californian uni stats on the other thread) is due to poor observation on the part of other road users (SMIDSY) and the limited protection which protective gear can provide in comparison with seat belts, air bags,side impact bars, collapsible steering columns etc, - the same goes for cyclists vulnerability to a greater degree if the anecdotal evidence from these very boards is to be accepted.

 

[asterix]

The primary reason why motorcyclists are more vulnerable (covered in the californian uni stats on the other thread) is due to poor observation on the part of other road users (SMIDSY) QUOTE]


..together with failure to take bends and filtering or overtaking accidents.

 

[very-near]

The primary reason why motorcyclists are more vulnerable (covered in the californian uni stats on the other thread) is due to poor observation on the part of other road users (SMIDSY) QUOTE]


..together with failure to take bends and filtering or overtaking accidents.

Overtaking accidents where hitting another car are not the same as 'inappropriate speed'. They are when the motorcyclist occupies the other lane where vehicles coming the other way have right of way on their side of the carriageway.

It is perfectly possible to overtake sunday drivers (as well as van and lorry drivers) safely without exceeding the posted limits (or using inappropriate speed)

Failure to take a bend can be as much down to riding ability (or lack of handling skills) as going to fast for the corner.

 

[very-near]

Failure to take a bend is always about riding ability.

If making a poor judgment call on what is the appropriate speed to negotiate the corner safely, then definitely, but even the best drivers and riders make mistakes.