A question of gearing ( No Triple v Compact debate !)

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BJH

Über Member
Wondering if anyone can offer a qualified view on my query.

If I look at the Gear Ratios on Sheldon Brown, a compact running 34 front on 28 cassette has almost ideticle gearing to a triple with 30 front and 25 cassette.

Does that mean that the effort required on either is identical if you are using lower gears to spin up a hill?

Is there any difference in the way either combination would ride?

Thanks for any advice.
 

Landslide

Rare Migrant
You're not going to get an answer without the debate.

Essentially, the effort will be the same in the lowest gear.
The question is how you get there (to the lowest gear). With a triple, there are more gear combinations, and the ratios are spaced more closely. This means that there is less of a "jump" in pedaling speed (cadence) as you make your way down through the gears.
 

MacB

Lover of things that come in 3's
the short answer is equal gear inches means equal effort required. The gaps between your gears, and how often you need to change rings at the front, is really what differentiates doubles, compacts and triples. If you're serious, or racing, then close ratio gears are considered important, to allow a certain tempo to be maintained. You'll hear reference to the art of changing gear and the double change, ie front and rear at same time.

It really does come down to preference and riding style. I'm lazy and so try to minimise any gear changes thus spending most of my time in the middle ring of a triple. There are times when I end up freewheeling as I relaise that I'm no longer pedalling fast enough to add speed in the gear I'm in, and don't want to change. There are other times when I just get out of the saddle and honk rather than go for an easier gear. This works for me and I now look at gearing that suits that rather than gearing that's meant to suit a certain type of bike.
 

I am Spartacus

Über Member
Location
N Staffs
Not really understanding where you want to go with this..
however
a gear
is a gear
is a gear
whether it is on a triple, compact or double chainset.
 

MartinC

Über Member
Location
Cheltenham
BJH said:
Does that mean that the effort required on either is identical if you are using lower gears to spin up a hill?

Is there any difference in the way either combination would ride?

Question 1 - Yes it's the same.

Question 2 - Yes there is. This is the triple/compact debate that you don't want to get into.
 
OP
OP
B

BJH

Über Member
Thanks, I understood the triple provides a greater range, I just couldn't get my head around whether it was easier using the smaller chain ring on a triple than using a compact.
Understood !
 

Paul_Smith SRCC

www.plsmith.co.uk
Location
Surrey UK
What you need to do is work out what ’Gear ratios’ you like to use and then try and achieve them, making sure they are correctly positioned, no point if mathematically you can only get your most common used gear in largest ring largest sprocket.

By way of an example that is all I have done on my tour bike I use a 13-29 Campagnolo 10 speed set up with 26-36-46, which gives me all that I am after

3215729488_29fb9e6661_o.jpg


In my case for example I like gears of around 60”, you will see that I have got those on both middle and outer ring. I have done this essentially because this is a bike I use for two roles, solo rides of 15-20mph and touring rides of 12-15mph, to save repeated chain ring changes I can essentially use the big ring mainly for solo rides and the middle ring for more sociable rides. Even though it only has a 96" top gear I find that easily high enough for a mid 20-25 mph work out, for 15-20mph cruising I have ratios that I like available mid cassette on the 46 ring, this I find is the perfect set up for me. Of course everyone is different, some prefer a lower low gear and a higher high gear, horses for courses as they say

It does take a bit of thought as to what you need both in terms of ratios and then equipment choices to achieve them, but it can nearly always be done. In my case for example I did invest in a high quality chainset to get the ring combinations I wanted, as for me personally I find many road specific triples to large for me and the ATB chainsets to small for what I want, where as with a compact 34/50 I find the ratios I want are in the wrong combinations, large ring large sprockets or vice versa.

Note I said 'wanted' not 'needed', my tour bike is used for tours, often I want to climb a long mountain pass with little effort to take in the scenery, so I chose lower gear ratios on that bike. Sportive bikes by comparison are normally ridden with no luggage, plus set up generally for riding at a higher speed than a touring bike, you can see from that gear chart above that a 34t inner chain ring with a 27t largest sprocket, a common combination on a sportive bike with compact transmission, will give a lowest gear ratio of approx' 34", on that style of bike that is low enough for most riders, even on a mountain pass.

To try and explain what a 34" gear ratio equates to you will see a red Audax bike in my tour write ups under my signature below, the ’Cycle tour from Lands End to John O'groats, (LEJOG) write up had a higher gear than that and I rode up every climb, in that specification I also toured the High Alps with two full panniers and again rode every climb.

However, I realised when I was riding in a group I had to keep the gear turning on the climbs and ride quicker than many of my new friends, who were using lower gear ratios than me and able to ride at a slower more socialble pace, that along with wanting to take in the scenery is why you will now see that bike had a triple in some of the later tour articles. As I said gear ratio choices can take some thought, the decision may not always be down to ability.

Note my bike is an Audax bike, I have mentioned it purely to illustrate the thought process that can go into deciding what gear ratios to go for. As an Audax bike like mine is often used potentially for slower tours, many spec' a triple over a double, where as some of the bikes you are considering are set up more as fast day ride/sportive bikes, as I said above normally used for a slightly faster style of riding, as such they will normally have higher gear ratios than my Audax bike as a result

Paul_Smith
www.corridori.co.uk
 

jimboalee

New Member
Location
Solihull
If its the same bike, riden by the same rider, a 30 x 25 ( 32" ) will feel the same as a 34 x 28 ( 32" ) providing ( as has been mentioned ) the cranks are the same length on the triple and compact.

The reason for this is the power at the B/B axle is the same because the RATIO is the same.

Increase the crank length and less pedaling pressure will be required ( Newtons x metres ).
Lessen the crank length and the pedaling pressure will need to be increased because the metres distance from the B/B axle to the pedal axle has decreased.
 

PpPete

Legendary Member
Location
Chandler's Ford
Now THAT'S really asking for us to re-open the triple/compact debate.
I know which is "best" for me - but there is no universal "right answer" for everybody.

Read Paul's post again, and think about all the gears you want and how you want to use them.

When you've done that figure out if you can afford the result !
I've ended having to butcher several Shimano standard cassettes and re-assemble different sprockets to get what I want.
 

MacB

Lover of things that come in 3's
Most people don't need a gear bigger than 110 inches(46/11 gives this) and they'd probably benefit from extra at the bottom of the range. A top of 100 inches, 46/12 or 42/11, is probably enough. Some know this and gear accordingly, others are deluded and believe they 'need' a 50/52/53 ring:evil:
 

GrasB

Veteran
Location
Nr Cambridge
Sorry if this is a little technical for you but I thought this may help, it's the gear matrix I used to decide to go back to a compact. I'm typically riding on about a 75" gear. Each row represents a 5% ratio band. Yellow is a gear outside a normal range of working & may cause chain rubbing, blue is where the chain is more-or-less straight.
2d1plxx.png

If you can get your head round that matrix then you can probably work out how you will ride on the gear ranges & how comfortable they'd be for you.
 

PpPete

Legendary Member
Location
Chandler's Ford
Nice presentation GrasB....

13-29 cassette? Is that standard? what rear mech? Just interested because I'm just building up 12-30 from bits, and I'm wondering if I missed something?
 

GrasB

Veteran
Location
Nr Cambridge
porkypete, I use a Campag Centura groupset where the 13-29 is a standard cassette.

MacB, or maybe not... my 52/13 gives me a slightly lower ratio than 46/11, however the 13-29 cassette actually gives me a nicer set of ratios to ride on than a 11-28 as it gives me an extra gear in the 90-60" gear range that I normally ride in.
 
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