(a bit OT) security

[bonj2]

hmmm... it puts me in a bit of a quandry really as to what chain to get.
Part of me wants to get an almax series 3 for my flat:
Its advantages are:
peace of mind that it's uncroppable

disadvantages:

• if I try and save £25 off the expense of it (£125 as opposed to £150) by going for the CISA lock instead of the dearer squire one, would the lock be the weakest link, and thus render the whole thing only as good as a cheaper chain (I've posed this query to almax, and I await their response...)
• will my £7.99 oxford ground anchor be the weak link anyhow, thus rendering the expense of a super duper chain pointless? I could really do with not spending upwards of £50 on a ground anchor if it's not bolt croppable anyway.

I could, alternatively, get a cheaper chain - say half/two-thirds of the price of the almax. Disadvantage is obviously that it's probably possible to bolt-cropper it. But, the advantage is cost - not just in raw pound note value savings, but the fact that I might be achieving exactly the same objective anyway just aswell, because (a) it's a deterrent - most thieves are opportunistic chavs who will go and find something a lot easier to nick at the sniff of something even vaguely tough, ( most bolt-croppers aren't as beefy as the ones Captain Cropper had, and (c) putting it out of reach of anyone but professional thieves is going to mean they'll need angle grinders and a few spare blades anyway, which even the almax chains haven't been proven to stand up to (angle grinders can get through anything...)

I think I've just talked myself out of buying an almax, but those guys do present such a good pitch, it makes me want it! When I saw the video on youtube I thought "well, i bet that's going to be about £300 or £400", so was expecting the decision to be easy, but it's actually only £150 for a five-foot one with the best lock, so it's a bit harder...

So help me decide please people! Do I get the almax; if so how well (or not) does my oxford ground anchor compliment it; if not, what do I go for instead?

 

[bonj2]

What are you tying up in the back of your van?

I'm not tying anything up in it , I'm going to bolt a ground anchor to the floor, and also a thule 592 indoor carrier. The ground anchor's going to be bolted on with non-undoable, high tensile steel bolts with a thick metal plate above and below it, this effectively makes the area of metal the anchor is secured to much bigger and prevents the area of floor the bolts are in being torn out.
I'm then going to remount the ply-lining (and possibly replace it entirely) by making some stilts and new mounting points for it, and cut-outs for the bike bits so I've got a flush surface if I want to carry anything like say a washing machine or bags of garden waste etc.

 

[bonj2]

There comes a point with cycle security where you have to think that it's not worth the bother. After all, you're daft not to be insured, and in some cases you'll just get more damage done to your property with the attempted theft.

Are you spending more than 10% of the value of the bike on this?

I am insured, but it would still be a major arse to lose my bike, mainly because it took over a month to get delivered and so probably would again, and the closest similarly-specced equivalent model in the UK is best part of two grand - a fair whack more than the 1600 euros that my bike cost, i.e. about £1160. And besides, I do really like it so I would have the same one again, and I have fitted some non-standard parts - bash ring, rear tyre, stem and grips.
So 10% of the value of the bike is £116.
The 1.5m almax series 3 is £125, or £150 with the squire lock.
But the almax recommended ground anchors are IIRC £50 and £75 respectively.
The oxford ground anchors which I've ordered off CRC (but can send back as haven't fitted them yet) were £8 each.

So my thinking is that going by the 10% rule, I should get the almax series 3 with the (cheaper) CISA lock. But I keep thinking along the lines of what tools I'm denying the possibility of getting through my security - with the oxford ground anchors I might not even be protecting against very heavy duty bolt-croppers (and possibly even the CISA lock), so if that's the case, then there's no point in spending more money on a chain that can stand up to them.
I guess what I could really do with is knowing whether the oxford ground anchor is bolt croppable. But I guess there's no real way of knowing that... because the 'captain cropper' guys are clearly the people from almax - so if it's NOT possible to get through it with bolt croppers, then they're hardly likely to release a video of the failed attempt are they, as it would harm sales of their own much more expensive ground anchors...

 

[Tetedelacourse]

I hope your van doesn't get stolen.

 

[Aperitif]

It won't.

He's chained it very securely to his bike.

 

[bonj2]

I hope your van doesn't get stolen.

That's a good point, I hope it doesn't aswell!
I have got a thatcham approved steering wheel lock for it to that end.

 

[bonj2]

i've seen in a local (police-recommended) security shop a 2m long chain with 12mm links for £44 and a padlock for £40 so I might get them. he also showed me a set of bolt-cropper blades which he said he'd used a scaffolding pole on the end of to try and get through it ... one of the blades had completely sheared off. Which is encouraging.
So unless i can find as good or better, or even only nearly as good, for significantly less than £84 i think that's what i'm going to go for.

 

[domtyler]

You could just buy a ****ing nasty great dog to stick in your van.

 

[Aperitif]

You could just buy a ****ing nasty great dog to stick in your van.

Yeah - but she'd have to get out now and then to pop to the 'ladies'..

 

[bonj2]

Yeah - but she'd have to get out now and then to pop to the 'ladies'..

yeah, that's true. and she'd demand to be walked

 

[oxbob]

jesus! every time i look at this thread more metal is going in the back of the van, what size motor has it got?

 

[bonj2]

jesus! every time i look at this thread more metal is going in the back of the van, what size motor has it got?

2.3 diesel. it's slow, but can pull well in high gears, and doesn't seem any slower with a heavy load than without...

there's only ever been 4 bits of metal going in it - a ground anchor, two strengthening plates either side, and a thule 592 rack. The only other things extra are the bolts for those things which will be mere ounces, and then some wooden stilts for the ply-lining, but they'll be less than 1kg I would have thought. Total weight? probably about 10 kg. Carrying capacity of van? apparently 900kg according to the ins. co. records...so i'm not going to lose too much sleep over the weight of things i'm putting in.

 

[andy_wrx]

i've seen in a local (police-recommended) security shop a 2m long chain with 12mm links for £44 and a padlock for £40 so I might get them.

I did wonder about this sort of thing as I was reading down the thread.

I remember reading some years ago about car security - Krookloks, steering-wheel bars and disc locks, etc were basically all rubbished and they said that basically the best way to secure your car was with a length of beefy chain pulled tight round the brake pedal and through the steering wheel and secured with a quality padlock.

All the fancy security lock things car security shops sell were far less secure and far more expensive - they looked pretty, sold like hot cakes in Halfords, but not as good as basically a length of solid chain.

So I've often wondered since how secure bike locks are - and quite what you're paying for with a chain & padlock sold specifically as bike-security : it'll have Arbus or Kryptonite or someone's logo on it, plus their marketing and advertising costs, plus the importer's & bike shop's mark-up, etc, etc.

 

[bonj2]

I did wonder about this sort of thing as I was reading down the thread.

I remember reading some years ago about car security - Krookloks, steering-wheel bars and disc locks, etc were basically all rubbished and they said that basically the best way to secure your car was with a length of beefy chain pulled tight round the brake pedal and through the steering wheel and secured with a quality padlock.

hmmm... but surely if you could cut the steering wheel (i'm not sure whether you can, but if you can) then you could get that off.
But you'd still need to cut the steering wheel to get the steering wheel lock off. Wouldn't you? So they're both the same level of security.
Or is is that the steering wheel lock itself was proven to be easily cut/cropped (but the steering wheel can't / is more difficult to)?

All the fancy security lock things car security shops sell were far less secure and far more expensive - they looked pretty, sold like hot cakes in Halfords, but not as good as basically a length of solid chain.

I only got the one I did because it was the cheapest one that was thatcham approved. I only got it in the first place because the DVLA cocked up over the log book and it got sent to someone else by mistake. It's sorted now, but for a while it would have been theoretically possible for someone to find it, get keys made for it and just drive it off. Hence, the steering wheel lock.
I haven't seen the tests (although it would be quite interesting to see them actually) but I'm sure a really professional thief wouldn't have too many problems getting through it, but most cars crime isn't done by really professional thieves, it's by chavs and scallies 'out on the rob'. And besides, really professional car thieves aren't going to be particularly attracted to a 9-year-old white van, they're going to try and go for brand new, high end beemers, mercs and porkers, preferably with keys. They could nick it just to nick the bikes, but even if mine and my mate's bike were both in there and they knew they were in there, they've still got to employ professional car thieves' tecniques for a black market sale value of probably little more than a grand if that. And that's if they know they're in there -which they wouldn't as i'm having the back window tinted tomorrow

So I've often wondered since how secure bike locks are - and quite what you're paying for with a chain & padlock sold specifically as bike-security : it'll have Arbus or Kryptonite or someone's logo on it, plus their marketing and advertising costs, plus the importer's & bike shop's mark-up, etc, etc.

for me, it's two-fold: partly about a deterrent ('you don't want to even try nicking this, something else will be a lot easier'), but then mostly about being able to be reasonably confident that someone equipped only with bolt-croppers isn't going to be able to defeat it. The chain i'm planning on buying tomorrow does give me that level of confidence.

What's triggered my recent interest in getting security products though is that the only protection against someone who knows my bike's in my flat and wants to nick it is the front door. And I waste about an hour a week going back to check it's locked