500 bikes for Sudanese charity blocked at Scottish port

[Emanresu]

Thing is politics should be about making things work or making things better and maybe arguing about how this should be done, or even about which option is better.

Sadly that no longer seems the case

If you want to make things work, hire an engineer. Can't see lawyers/barristers, of which there are a lot in Parliament, surviving on a desert island.

Oh... just had a thought.

 

[Illaveago]

If you want to make things work, hire an engineer. Can't see lawyers/barristers, of which there are a lot in Parliament, surviving on a desert island.

Oh... just had a thought.

Ooh! Why can't we send them there ?

 

[Andy in Germany]

Ooh! Why can't we send them there ?

Customs would stop the shipment because they're unfit for purpose.

 

[Drago]

Ooh! Why can't we send them there ?

They're the Golgafrinchans.

 

[the snail]

They should check out the inspector's car, and if they find anything broken/rusty/out of adjustment, send it straight to the scrapyard.

 

[C R]

They're the Golgafrinchans.

People seem to usually miss the deeper point of the Golgafrinchan story. In the book, the mother civilisation died off because of an epidemic a few years after getting rid of all those people that seemed useless. The reason for the epidemic was that those people were after all not useless to society.

 

[Drago]

People seem to usually miss the deeper point of the Golgafrinchan story.

I didn't miss the point at all. They're the class of people we should pack into a spaceship and rid ourselves of, metaphically speaking. I'd be happy to take my chances with what's left.

 

[C R]

I didn't miss the point at all. They're the class of people we should pack into a spaceship and rid ourselves of, metaphically speaking. I'd be happy to take my chances with what's left.

So you exactly missed the point, the Golgafrinchans took the gamble and lost, we would loose too.

 

[matticus]

So you exactly missed the point, the Golgafrinchans took the gamble and lost, we would loose too.

Yes, we'd never get by without the spell checkers!

 

[matticus]

If you want to make things work, hire an engineer. Can't see lawyers/barristers, of which there are a lot in Parliament, surviving on a desert island.

Oh... just had a thought.

I wouldn't tell this joke here, as it's clearly unacceptable:

- What do you call 10 lawyers on the bottom of a swimming pool?

- A good start.

 

[rydabent]

This does seem a rather petty decision to reject the shipment of bikes to Sudan.

The receiving charity was aware of the condition of the bikes and was happy to accept them.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2e7yy3z3p8o

A man who tried to send 500 bikes to a charity in Africa had them refused at a Scottish port after they were classed as waste.​

​

Nigel Carter, 64, had been gathering bicycles across Scotland to be shipped to Sudan, to help people who need access to cheap transport. ​

​

The Scottish Environment Protection Agency (SEPA) said the shipment could not leave the country as an inspector had deemed them unfit for purpose because some of them needed repairs.​

​

The bikes were shipped back to Mr Carter in Comrie, Perthshire, which he said meant they risked being scrapped.​

​

Mr Carter told BBC Scotland's Drivetime on Thursday that he had gathered the bikes from Scottish recycling centres to offer to Scottish charities - and those not taken were given to a charity in Sudan.​

​

According to Mr Carter the repairs raised by Sepa were only minor and easily fixed, including oil on chains, rusted frames and broken brake cables.​

​

He said that these repairs would be more cost effective if carried out in Sudan rather than in Scotland. ​

​

The Sudanese charity receiving the bikes had picked them out and were happy with their condition, Mr Carter said. ​

​

He added that the bikes were also approved by qualified bicycle mechanics. ​

​

The bikes would have been used across Sudan for children to get to school or to help people run their businesses. ​

​

He told the BBC it was costing the Sudanese charity for the shipping container to be sitting in "limbo" and puts them at risk of closing.​

​

Mr Carter said the bikes will now most likely be scrapped or taken back to the recycling centre, where they were picked from​

​

The current civil war in the north east African country means there is a lack of resources such as oil and fuel, so bikes have become more sought after. ​

​

The bikes were shipped in a container to a Scottish port, where it was stopped for an inspection by environment officials. ​

​

Gary Walker, a waste manager at Sepa, said some of the bikes needed repairs before they could be reused. ​

​

The container was sent back to Mr Carter.​

Another case of stupid B'crats sticking their noses in where they dont belong.

 

[brommieinkorea]

This is really wierd. How could they declare it waste ? It's scrap/recycling not waste. Fairly routine to cut up containers in the US so they can be packed into one container to be shipped back to China, cheaper to make another container than ship it back empty,but China lacks iron mines so they need the metal. It isn't waste its parts.

 

[bonzobanana]

I really don't see why we should be sending old bikes like this to Africa and Asia. We are trying to encourage people here to use bicycles and many poor people with extremely low disposable incomes and without mechanical skills don't have access to a bike here. We have a scheme where you can avoid tax on a bicycle purchase but this provides huge benefits for middle income to the rich to get a subsidised bicycle and no benefits to someone on very low income below the level of taxation or unemployed etc. So we provide assistance to people who don't need it which adds hugely to our trade deficit and requirement for borrowing etc. They import many more bikes often short life and weak performance bicycles or terrible ebikes with mid-drive motors with complex unreliable motors, accelerated drivetrain wear and highly proprietary parts which make long term use unpractical.

Instead surely much better to collect these bikes and setup local workshops where they can be re-conditioned here (teaching people bicycle maintenance) and providing these bikes for free to such people. The scheme would simply work by someone selecting one of these bikes from the pile and then repair and refurbish it themselves using one of these workshops so not only would they get a free bike but the skills to maintain it. I stagger to think how much tax has been avoided through all the cycle2work schemes. You don't even have to give ownership to people of these bikes. They could simply be painted in their own special colour and used to create a free bike hire scheme of sorts so people can just use them. Only very basic easy to repair bikes would be used for such a scheme, same sort of bikes that are typically sent to Africa, high tensile steel frames, basic gearing, no suspension etc same spec as Halfords use for their bikes to Africa. Only strong and cheaply maintained bikes are sent. The same bicycles as below would work well for a hire scheme.

Lets not forget we are basically a bankrupt nation heading towards a default on our debts. There is over £180k of government debt of all types for every single person in this country, we are living well beyond our means and there is an underclass of people that is growing in size at an alarming rate. We seemed to have done everything wrong we could for the last 50 years for our economy its been utter madness building up huge debts, destroying industry, allowing huge immigration and just giving away money at an alarming rate. We are not the only country in this position but that doesn't help. There is an increase in homeless people in the UK of about 10-20% a year and its approaching half a million people who are in either temporary accommodation or no accommodation at all. As more councils face bankruptcy less and less temporary accommodation is being provided so more people are on the streets. My point is we need to face reality we are a much, much poorer country and at some point we need to start repairing ourselves rather than focus our attention elsewhere. Lots of people in the UK have had a horrific decline in living standards and now lack sufficient food, heating, accommodation etc and face far greater levels of crime. Lots of people now lack access to dentistry and there are long delays for medical treatment etc. There is a state of anarchy in many places where the police seem to have given up allowing crimes like shoplifting etc to be ignored. The current Labour government just like the Conservative governments are still borrowing like mad and adding to the debt pile. It won't be too long before there is over £200k of debt for every single person in this country. I just think we have reached a time where we need to focus on our own economy and people as a priority.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

I really don't see why we should be sending old bikes like this to Africa and Asia. We are trying to encourage people here to use bicycles and many poor people with extremely low disposable incomes and without mechanical skills don't have access to a bike here. We have a scheme where you can avoid tax on a bicycle purchase but this provides huge benefits for middle income to the rich to get a subsidised bicycle and no benefits to someone on very low income below the level of taxation or unemployed etc. So we provide assistance to people who don't need it which adds hugely to our trade deficit and requirement for borrowing etc. They import many more bikes often short life and weak performance bicycles or terrible ebikes with mid-drive motors with complex unreliable motors, accelerated drivetrain wear and highly proprietary parts which make long term use unpractical.

Instead surely much better to collect these bikes and setup local workshops where they can be re-conditioned here (teaching people bicycle maintenance) and providing these bikes for free to such people. The scheme would simply work by someone selecting one of these bikes from the pile and then repair and refurbish it themselves using one of these workshops so not only would they get a free bike but the skills to maintain it. I stagger to think how much tax has been avoided through all the cycle2work schemes. You don't even have to give ownership to people of these bikes. They could simply be painted in their own special colour and used to create a free bike hire scheme of sorts so people can just use them. Only very basic easy to repair bikes would be used for such a scheme, same sort of bikes that are typically sent to Africa, high tensile steel frames, basic gearing, no suspension etc same spec as Halfords use for their bikes to Africa. Only strong and cheaply maintained bikes are sent. The same bicycles as below would work well for a hire scheme.

Lets not forget we are basically a bankrupt nation heading towards a default on our debts. There is over £180k of government debt of all types for every single person in this country, we are living well beyond our means and there is an underclass of people that is growing in size at an alarming rate. We seemed to have done everything wrong we could for the last 50 years for our economy its been utter madness building up huge debts, destroying industry, allowing huge immigration and just giving away money at an alarming rate. We are not the only country in this position but that doesn't help. There is an increase in homeless people in the UK of about 10-20% a year and its approaching half a million people who are in either temporary accommodation or no accommodation at all. As more councils face bankruptcy less and less temporary accommodation is being provided so more people are on the streets. My point is we need to face reality we are a much, much poorer country and at some point we need to start repairing ourselves rather than focus our attention elsewhere. Lots of people in the UK have had a horrific decline in living standards and now lack sufficient food, heating, accommodation etc and face far greater levels of crime. Lots of people now lack access to dentistry and there are long delays for medical treatment etc. There is a state of anarchy in many places where the police seem to have given up allowing crimes like shoplifting etc to be ignored. The current Labour government just like the Conservative governments are still borrowing like mad and adding to the debt pile. It won't be too long before there is over £200k of debt for every single person in this country. I just think we have reached a time where we need to focus on our own economy and people as a priority.

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Well there’s a lot to unpack in that stream of words, some of it bonkers, but this isn’t the place. Please start a thread over on NCAP if you want to discuss your ramble further.

 

[Andy in Germany]

@bonzobanana: I make no comment on the political parts of your post, which as @glasgowcyclist says are better aired over on the NACA part of the forum. However, I'm in a position to comment on some of your suggestions.

Instead surely much better to collect these bikes and setup local workshops where they can be re-conditioned here (teaching people bicycle maintenance) and providing these bikes for free to such people.

Firstly, finding a way for people who can't afford a bike, to get a decent bike is a very worthy goal. Teaching people bike maintenance is also a great idea. Teaching and learning requires aptitude and interest on the part of the person being taught, and knowledge and ability to teach from the teacher. It also requires time; time to observe, attempt, repeat, make mistakes, repeat again, and master a skill. Even a person with the ability to learn has to go through this process; this is why here a basic apprenticeship in bike maintenance takes two years; it's to give time to learn skills, and then apply them in different situations.

Let's say our goal is to teach one person to fix one bike; they need to understand the principles behind wheels, the braking system, the gears sufficiently to be able to make them work. It takes a while to teach someone to do this, even if you 'only' tech them to fix, say, V-Brakes, and ignore every other system.

If you then give the bike to the person for free, who pays for the replaced parts and time? In our workshop, we calculated that one set of V-Brake blocks is 5€. Fitting is five minutes or 5,40€. Replacement Brake cables are about 15€ with inner, outer, caps, et c. Fitting is about ten minutes or 10,40€. A chain is ca. 20€ and a rear block/cassette is another 15€, plus time. If the wheels aren't straight, or the tyres need changing, the cost increases rapidly.

I would calculate a basic 50€ for a bike once it was on the stand, plus 15€ for any and all used parts, plus the cost of new parts. To this you need to add, rent/electricity, and broken parts and tools because parts and tools get broken when people are learning.

It is hard to repair a bike under 100€, and the usual price for a good, solid, and well repaired used bike that conforms to German safety regulations is usually in the 175€ to 250€ range. This is a great disappointment to people who come assuming they can get a good bike for a tenner.

That's for a mechanic, and in our case a mechanic that is pretty much free for us because they're being paid by the local authority through grants or training schemes.

Now, you could say that the people are doing the work for themselves, but you need a trainer to be at the very least on hand, and the trainer will need to check the bike before it leaves the workshop. You may be lucky and have a volunteer competent bike wrench/trainer. If you have to pay someone, a trainer costs more than a repair man, and it takes far, far longer to teach someone to repair things than it does to just fix them.

We have a system in Tübingen where the town subsidises bike repairs for someone once every three months, up to 20€ for parts and 27€ for the work. In theory, we are supposed to teach the people how to do the repairs, but in practice this doesn't work. Very few are interested, which is fair enough, and we don't have the time. So we just take them like a regular customer's bike and fix them as fast as we can.

Also, I've unfortunately found that some people who are given free bikes don't look after them, trash them, and in some cases then come back assuming we will essentially rebuild it for free or give them another free bike because it 'doesn't work'.

"Free" bike rental has the same issue; bike share/hire works because you have the name and address of the person using the bike. Unfortunately, without this accountability, bikes end up in a canal. There's also the matter of maintenance, which costs money, and insurance, which costs money.

The scheme would simply work by someone selecting one of these bikes from the pile and then repair and refurbish it themselves

I very quickly decided that customers would be allowed to buy the bikes we'd repaired, and would not be able to select from the unrepaired bikes, the reason being you can't tell if a bike is fixable before you have checked it first. People picking their own bike will probably be very disappointed if the bike can't be repaired, and to give you some idea, I'd say we can repair about 1 in 5 of the bikes we get. After all, there's a reason they've been thrown away/abandoned/"donated".