2020 Structured Training

[Dogtrousers]

I think it's going to take a long time for my FTP test figures to mean anything at all. I've increased it with each test since I started a few months ago just by aiming a bit higher on my 20 min test. The 20 min test seems to rely a lot on pacing skill and knowing what you can sustain. I expect the improvements with this will become marginal as time goes by. Presumably I'll have to aim too high and blow up before I know exactly where I should be aiming.

Ramp tests, which I've only just figured out, seem to be less reliant on skill (and significantly less horrible to do) but I don't think the figures obtained (75% of failure) are directly comparable with the 20 min effort test. But I intend to do them a bit more regularly to see what happens.

I also have trouble imagining that I could actually last an hour in the real world at the FTP reported from my 20 min test. It's possible, I suppose, but it would be extremely difficult/unpleasant.

I also seem to have dropped a couple of kilos since December. That wasn't intentional. They'll probably come back.

That damn Turbo. It's just so convenient. I started gathering all my winter kit into a pile for a short-ish real ride on Sunday. Then thought ... what the heck.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

I switched to doing the ramp test last year. I find just keep pedalling till you can’t works for me. If I find the subsequent workouts too hard or too easy I just adjust the FTP by 2-3% each time till it feels about right.

How close your FTP is to your max aerobic power obviously matters as well. It underestimates mine as my FTP is a much higher percentage. Though obviously the gap can shrink or increase depending what training you are doing.

 

[mattobrien]

Yeah if you want to build power on the TT bike you need to do your turbo time on it. Train for power in the position you’ll be in.

There are some very different schools of thought on that one. It is very possible to train on a road bike and spend a few sessions adapting to tt position.
Some say that you shouldn’t turbo on a tt bike in position unless you have a super high interia turbo.
I have a tt bike on the turbo, but am not currently doing sessions in position as it won’t help at this stage.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

There are some very different schools of thought on that one. It is very possible to train on a road bike and spend a few sessions adapting to tt position.
Some say that you shouldn’t turbo on a tt bike in position unless you have a super high interia turbo.
I have a tt bike on the turbo, but am not currently doing sessions in position as it won’t help at this stage.

It’s not so much about fit but more that your TT power will be lower if you trained in the road bike position.

 

[Dogtrousers]

I'm possibly abusing this thread as my "training" is anything but structured. It's just "have a bit of fun killing yourself on the turbo when you get a bit of time".

Anyway ... In my quest to understand all of this training malarkey I did a "sweet spot" session this week. Three 15 min blocks at 90% FTP, with 5 min easy between them.

First two blocks were OK but four minutes from the end of the third I maxed out my heart rate, ground to a stop and had to pause. Possible factors - Maybe the 5 min gap should have been longer. Also I hadn't eaten for quite a few hours before training.

This makes me think ... My 20 min effort is X. My FTP is 95% X and this is supposedly an effort I could sustain for an hour. I find it hard to believe that I could really do this, especially as I failed to do 45 minutes at 90% FTP, ie 85.5% X, with a couple of short rests thrown in.

Which makes me think that actually doing an hour at FTP, which is supposedly the definition, would be impossible. I'd blow up.

Anyway, I'll have another bash at setting up a sweet spot session at less than 90% FTP, say 85%, and increase the rest time between intervals.

But this weekend I'm planning to do some real outside riding up and down proper hills in the real world. See if I haven't become too soft.

 

[mattobrien]

It’s not so much about fit but more that your TT power will be lower if you trained in the road bike position.

I think that that we may have to disagree on that one.

My experience has found that through adaptation sessions in position, it is very possible to transfer power from training in road bike position to tt position.

While at times my coach will ask me to do specific sessions in position, it isn’t that often. It works for me and I’m able to replicate food power numbers on either bike and out in some reasonable times when racing.

 

[mattobrien]

I'm possibly abusing this thread as my "training" is anything but structured. It's just "have a bit of fun killing yourself on the turbo when you get a bit of time".

Anyway ... In my quest to understand all of this training malarkey I did a "sweet spot" session this week. Three 15 min blocks at 90% FTP, with 5 min easy between them.

First two blocks were OK but four minutes from the end of the third I maxed out my heart rate, ground to a stop and had to pause. Possible factors - Maybe the 5 min gap should have been longer. Also I hadn't eaten for quite a few hours before training.

This makes me think ... My 20 min effort is X. My FTP is 95% X and this is supposedly an effort I could sustain for an hour. I find it hard to believe that I could really do this, especially as I failed to do 45 minutes at 90% FTP, ie 85.5% X, with a couple of short rests thrown in.

Which makes me think that actually doing an hour at FTP, which is supposedly the definition, would be impossible. I'd blow up.

Anyway, I'll have another bash at setting up a sweet spot session at less than 90% FTP, say 85%, and increase the rest time between intervals.

But this weekend I'm planning to do some real outside riding up and down proper hills in the real world. See if I haven't become too soft.

There are loads of things that could affect this; when did you last do an ftp, have you been training a lot since then, do you think your level of training will have seen your ftp increase or decrease since you last tested.

it might be worthwhile trying a different sweet spot session. You could look at 8min intervals with 2 mins off, repeat 6 times and this is likely to give you a similar tss to the 3x15 min sessions.

The idea of dropping intensity and then potentially building up to a higher intensity again isn’t a bad idea.

The quantity of training you’re able to do is going to have an impact too. If you are doing one or two structured sessions a week it is going to be harder to progress than if you are doing five or six. With slightly fewer sessions you may find you are slowly de training yourself and it justget harder and harder unless you retest and change the ftp. If You don’t already, it might be worth monitoring tss, CTL, ATL and tsb, so that you can best plan and ensure you get what you need from your training.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

@Dogtrousers Your FTP doesn’t have to be spot on. It’s just a value used to set the intensity of your workouts. It is after all an estimate.

Basic foundations for getting fitter. Structured training doesn’t have to be complicated. Just get the first three right to start with,

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Did 11 x 45 seconds at 110% FTP today. Legs felt tired and during third interval wondered if I could complete them. But dug in and kept hitting the power for the required duration. Feels good when you complete a hard session when you have doubts early on.

Low intensity workout tomorrow. Generally trying to follow the polarized approach this year with a better balance of low intensity. The high intensity intervals duration / number will gradually increase as I move forward into this season.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Good solid aerobic capacity intervals today. Couple of more workouts then I enter my rest and test week.

 

[HLaB]

Just did my first FTP test of the year and I am up 20w on my guessed mid chemo FTP (pre chemo number -50w). I definitely felt like there was more in the tank but 30w more :-/

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Excellent keep the progress up.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Currently in my rest and then test week. Probably test Tuesday.

 

[Dogtrousers]

Another lesson learned. And this may seem bleedin' obvious but I thought I'd share it.

Check your tyre pressure before using the turbo. I always calibrate the turbo, but I don't necessarily check the tyre pressure, which I always do before heading out on the roads.

I won't bore you with how/why I came to this realisation.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Tested today.

FTP up 23 watts since beginning of Jan. That’ll do nicely but now I’m better adapted to recumbent expect subsequent gains to be smaller amounts. We shall see in approx 4-5 weeks time.