2020 Genesis Croix de Fer 30 Review...

[SpokeyDokey]

Really good review and as an almost cured OCD freak I rather admire your attention to detail. Similar standard to the brilliant Hobbes On Tour thread!

About 2 years ago I was looking at Genesis as a possible new bike purchase (ended up with a Trek) and they made a noise on their Website that they didn't buy into rear TA's as the 'flexier' QR made for a slightly more supple ride at the rear. Good to see, imo, the inclusion of the far superior TA at the rear - I wonder what changed their minds?

Can't beat TA's on a disc braked bike for spot on disc alignment when wheels have been off and put back on... and part of my lingering OCD freakiness is that I never did like the way the little toothed QR's dig into the dropouts.

Love the look of your bike - would've preferred a chunkier looking front fork though. Is a carbon fork available as an extra?

I also like the FD/RD exterior cable routing rather than interior. Is the rear hydro hose internally routed too? Can't stand interior routed rattles - my Trek (Domane ALR 5 Disc) has the cables on the exterior and the hydro internal and thankfully the neat grip devices on the hydro mean no internal rattles.

How have you managed with the FD set up? Presumably the compact R series? My bike came with this although I switched it to the previous 'long arm' version (which still easily clears 32mm tyres and just about clears 35mm tyres) at no cost to myself as neither I nor the supplying LBS (Wheelbase, Cumbria) could get the thing to work properly. As you know (if it is the R series) it has 4 positions but only 3 could be achieved. Trek USA confirmed that set-up was problematic (why did they fit them then?).

I too cannot stand dealer stickers on bikes - especially if they have been slapped on using an eyes-shut method and are misaligned. There goes that OCD thing again - grrrr!

Hope you have many safe and happy miles on your bike.

NB: at some stage Shaun has promised us an add-on to the site that will facilitate write-ups such as yours. I hope we have more budding authors of the same standard on the site that will use it when it finally appears.

NB(2): your write-up shows what a pile of cack the write-ups of cycling mag's and online reviews are. Good effort by you.

 

[wafter]

Thanks guys!

Apologies for letting the thread stagnate; FWIW I've got a load more to add - have found a few more things I'm not happy with, made a few cock-ups myself and am still deliberating over which way to go with the bits I still need to source; pedals, cages, Polar mount etc.

I've also been riding / enjoying the bike a lot which has consumed a lot of my time

Very thorough review Wafter, well done.

Of course I'm at the other end of the scale to this level of protecting my bike, I actively want mine to look less new as quickly as possible. It's still just too shiny and pristine for my liking... I don't want it *damaged* per se, I just prefer my bikes to look well used, I worry about it less then. It takes all sorts!

I might be strange but I really like a dealer sticker on a bike, it sort of gives the machine a bit of an identity, somewhere it's "from". Silly I know, but i like a crafty look at the seat tube of other bikes and the delight in seeing "Carr's Cycles, Harrogate" or whatever.

View attachment 516236

Thanks

I'm the same to an extent.. I have no issue with legit wear but can't abide damage; especially if it could have been prevented with a bit of care or forethought. As is plainly obvious from this thread I'm very OCD about my gear and it affects me deeply if it does get dinged - life would be a lot easier if this wasn't the case but it is what it is and try as I might I struggle to change this.

I agree about the dealer stickers in principal - IMO they add a sense of uniqueness and history to a product. I was the same when I had the luxury of being able to own older / interesting cars when I was younger; a reference to the (now maybe deceased) supplying garage adding to the nostalgia.

I'm still undecided on the one on the bike as it's the only bit of yellow on it which IMO grates with the rest of the aesthetic. It'll probably stay though as I don't want to risk damaging the paint by attempting to remove it. In this regard I much prefer yours - more understated, subtly-located and in-keeping with the existing colour scheme!

I hope you're still making the most of yours in the great weather

I have the Ti model, a rare treat to myself after lusting for a 30 for many months. Bought new before the Ti price went absolutely ridiculous and in the end of season sale. I would not have bought it at the current nearly £4k rrp I can tell you! Initially I was disappointed with some of the small details and I was shocked to see through your review that Genesis haven’t changed some of their habits. Mine arrived with a wonky head badge too for example! The original forks did not have eyes for mudguards, a fault with all the bikes that year. Cue lots of chasing and a 10 week wait for replacements that required a different headset which wasn’t included with the replacements, a further unforgivable oversight by Genesis. At least the sale of the original forks netted a small return for the trouble but I’d have rather it be right from the start. The frame that year is mostly unpolished with a bead blasted finish. Inferior in my eyes and conveniently (for Genesis) cheaper than a proper polish present in the years previous.
But enough moaning! The bike is still going strong, I love to ride it. Only done approximately 12k and just chains and brake pads replaced through wear and tear. Oh, and a rear gear cable which snapped in the usual place, inside the shifter. I went for the non-heatsinked/vented/finned pads when replacing for about half the cost and no noticeable difference in use (commuting, day rides etc on lumpy but not very steep terrain).
I agree on the gearing and also find it too high. I’m planning to reduce the front ring sizes when they need replacing. Size-wise I went for XL with 60cm reach but may have been better with an L, even though I’m 6’2” the additional reach when on the hydro shifter hoods made it a bit uncomfortable. Have since fitted a shorter stem which seems to help.
For future upgrades I’ve a second-hand Ti-railed Brooks B17 ready to replace the current Brooks Flyer (and save 400g!) and am looking at the wheels too, once I lose about 5KG of belly it’ll be easier to justify
@wafter We must have similar traits. For protecting the frame..... I’ll shamefully admit I wrapped it entirely in non-adhesive black loom tape. This protects it completely and keeps it low-key in the work bike shed but sadly hides any beauty it had. I’ve also experimented with many chain lubes and will probably try your wax method next!

Very nice! While doing my homework I noticed the price of the Ti model has rocketed over the years too; although to be fair some of this could be explained away by the higher-end groupsets on the newer models - the latest coming with full GRX IIRC, which is nice.

That's pretty shocking about the head badge; I'd hoped this was a one-off as it's bloody sloppy on a £1k bike - let alone on a three grand Ti offering such as yours! Did you manage to sort it out? I still plan to bother Genesis about this but want to make sure I cover all the issues in one hit rather than drip-feeding them a litany of issues and making myself even less popular than a single email doubtless will..

As you say the issue with the forks is unforgivable too; glad you got it sorted to your advantage. I really want to like the company as I love their products and the ethos they sell.. While not necessarily against their off-shoring of manufacure to Taiwan (since it's the bike-building capital of the world and produces a lot of top-end stuff) their products are pretty expensive for what they are and I don't want to feel that I'm being taken advantage of; paying through the nose for poorly-made gear that's making massive margins for a company who doesn't really care about the quality of the products they're supplying.

"Only" 12k - that's more than I've covered in my entire life I reckon! Glad to hear the bike's still going strong after this distance; although I'd hope if looked after the frames should effectively last forever. How many miles are you getting out of brake pads and discs out of interest? I notice that (as usual) they're quite a bit cheaper if sourced from Europe and am tempted to get a few spares in the bank if I order anything else from these suppliers.. less point if the bits are going to last for years though. That's unfortunate about the gear cable; I'm guessing they fail in the shifter due to the angles necessary to fit the current "under bar tape" routing...?

The frames certainly seem to come up large. I've gotten used to my Medium now and am glad I went this route, although the bike still feels big compared to my others and the large frame would have been far too big.

The saddle upgrade sounds like a decent way of saving a bit of weight; I'm currently getting on OK with the standard one so will stick with this for the time being although the Brooks certainly seem like a nice addition. I hear the rails prevent a lot of saddle set-back, so that probably rules them out for me as my current one could probably use a bit more as it is.

I fully understand about the frame protection; makes perfect sense tbh and you're a braver man than I using such an expensive and prized possession for commuting! On both my latest bikes I've intended to fit protection tape, but on both occasions have given up trying to assess / decide between what amounts to obscenely over-priced pieces of sticky-backed plastic.

I was dismayed to find a few chips on the underside of the chainstay from chain slap so have a chainstay protector en-route, while the mudguards have proven to be doing an excellent job of keeping the frame pretty clean and free from stonechips

I'd highly recommend the chain waxing; while a bit of a faff it makes the whole drivetrain so much cleaner and easier to live with. You might be spending a lot of time with the saucepan though if you're covering a lot of miles. I've not really done a "full cycle" with the new bike yet, but on my 10sp Boardman I'm getting around 300 miles per waxing. I have two chains and alternate them; allowing me to do multiple chains (including those from my other bikes) at the same time to make the process a bit more efficient.. not got another chain for the Genesis yet but have had a look and the 11sp items anre bloody expensive aren't they?!

Anyway, I hope you're still getting out on yours - do you have a thread on it? I'm sure people (myself included) would be interested to see it

Lovely Bike @wafter and a really interesting and detailed review on your first few weeks of ownership.

Thanks chap - glad you found it of interest and I appreciate your encouragement!

@wafter, good write up.

i was looking at De Vers for the same bike but i happened across the 2019 CDF 30 for a ridiculous price so bought that instead - it may have been me who bought the one you were looking at.

your review has given me some food for thought and made me realise how technical these bikes are - im the sort who buys and rides tbh.

mine is fantastic, it is so capable and is used for trail, bridleway, tow path and cycle path riding. its opening tracks around where i live that i wouldnt have been able to ride before.

it will be used for bike packing nights out once we get the clearance to move a little more freely. the only issue i have is the frame bag i have means small bottles although the third set of mounts on the underside of the downtube will compensate.

i hope you enjoy yours as much as i am already

Cheers - and yes; perhaps you were the reason I couldn't get my hands on the 2019 model! In retrospect I'm very glad I bought the bike when I did, since (probably along with everyone else) De Ver's stock appears to have been almost completely cleared out during the pandemic and I'd have been gutted had I missed out on enjoying the riding opportunity we currently have because I was too slow.

tbh I think I probably prefer the colour of the earlier model and would be interested to see some pics of it in the wild!

I'm glad you're liking yours too - I totally agree about the new terrain these bikes open up and have discovered some really nice little routes as a result, as well as slowly learning where to draw the line. It's a hugely versatile format and I've not been out on the road bike since I bought it, although this is partially because I can't be arsed to swap the pedals back over

One last thing FWIW; if you've not already I'd highly recommend you fit a chainstay protector as mine's already been damaged by chainslap. It's not turned up yet but after a lot of research I settled on one of these, which looks well-made, is British and should just fit from the published size. Will obvously update when it gets here.

Hope you're still finding the time to get out on yours

Really good review and as an almost cured OCD freak I rather admire your attention to detail. Similar standard to the brilliant Hobbes On Tour thread!

About 2 years ago I was looking at Genesis as a possible new bike purchase (ended up with a Trek) and they made a noise on their Website that they didn't buy into rear TA's as the 'flexier' QR made for a slightly more supple ride at the rear. Good to see, imo, the inclusion of the far superior TA at the rear - I wonder what changed their minds?

Can't beat TA's on a disc braked bike for spot on disc alignment when wheels have been off and put back on... and part of my lingering OCD freakiness is that I never did like the way the little toothed QR's dig into the dropouts.

Love the look of your bike - would've preferred a chunkier looking front fork though. Is a carbon fork available as an extra?

I also like the FD/RD exterior cable routing rather than interior. Is the rear hydro hose internally routed too? Can't stand interior routed rattles - my Trek (Domane ALR 5 Disc) has the cables on the exterior and the hydro internal and thankfully the neat grip devices on the hydro mean no internal rattles.

How have you managed with the FD set up? Presumably the compact R series? My bike came with this although I switched it to the previous 'long arm' version (which still easily clears 32mm tyres and just about clears 35mm tyres) at no cost to myself as neither I nor the supplying LBS (Wheelbase, Cumbria) could get the thing to work properly. As you know (if it is the R series) it has 4 positions but only 3 could be achieved. Trek USA confirmed that set-up was problematic (why did they fit them then).

I too cannot stand dealer stickers on bikes - especially if they have been slapped on using an eyes-shut method and are misaligned. There goes that OCD thing again - grrrr!

Hope you have many safe and happy miles on your bike.

NB: at some stage Shaun has promised us an add-on to the site that will facilitate write-ups such as yours. I hope we have more budding authors of the same standard on the site that will use it when it finally appears.

NB(2): your write-up shows what a pile of cack the write-ups of cycling mag's and online reviews are. Good effort by you.

Thanks

That's interesting about the QR argument; not heard that one before but tbh sounds like a pretty spurious and flimsy defence for not making the change; perhaps they didn't want the cost and hassle of re-tooling / redesign or maybe they were concerned about TAs fizzling out as a fad rather than becoming the new standard as appears to be the case.

Either way I agree that it's a welcome change.. although sorry to disappoint but the TA still have the serrated faces that mark up the paint finish on (I guess now only one side of) the frame. It pains me to see this too; I thought about adding a washer but the damage is done now and it's probably preferable to having it come loose and result in an accident; as unlikley as this probably is.

It's funny you should mention the fork as I actually really like the skinny aesthetic and think that fat CFRP forks on an otherwise skinny-tubed steel bike look really out of place. While I appreciate that the fork adds a disproportionately large amount of mass to the frameset I specifically wanted a steel one because it seems that CFRP steerer tubes have a nasty habit of failing catastrophically, so steel was the obvious choice for peace of mind and longevity. Before all the composite fanboys start sharpening their knives I realise that these failures are relatively rare, although they are well-documented, often happen without warning, potentially have very serious consequences and are something that simply doesn't occur with steel items outside of massive impacts.

Yes, the FD is the current R7000 unit with the compact arm setup; you raise an interesting point and this is the first I've heard of this problem - do you have any links to any further information on this please?

I did actually spend quite a bit of time setting up the FD a week or so ago as I was pretty dissatisfied with the way it was working. FWIW I followed a mixture of Shimano's (slightly confusing) workshop guide, some stuff on Youtube and my own "intuiation".

From what I can remember the low limit screw is backed right out at the cage's inner-most setting as it's right at the end of its natural travel anyway. There's contact between the limit screw and its stop but in reality the screw is doing very little other than preventing the mech itself from limiting the cage's travel. This was necessary to get adequate clearance between the chain and inside of the cage when running 34/34, and I had to slacken off the clamp-on mount and rotate it slightly to achieve this - IIRC there's about 0.5mm clearance in the lowest gear.

Conversely the high limit screw is wound in quite a bit and I did struggle a little to get acceptable performance / clearance at the extreme ends of the system's operating evelope (34/34 and 50/11), although it's OK now. FWIW the cable tension is set up as per Shimano's guide (assuming I'm interpreting it correctly!) - with the datum lines on the FD assy aligned on the trim setting one down from the main big chainring position.

Both trim functions work fine and are necessary to prevent chain rub in normal use; especially on the big chainring where I find the trim setting is needed when maybe halfway through the rear cassette. I tend to run all the way up to the 2nd or 3rd largest rear sproket on the big ring as I believe these are still more efficient than the equivalent ratios on the small chainring; due to the greater chainring / sprocket diameters and correspondingly lower angular displacement of each chain link as they travel around the rings and sprockets.

Tbh Derailleur adjustment always twists my melon but from the limit screw positions it seems that the FD's operating envelope is currently biased right towards its most inboard settings. I've read that the GRX cranksets have their rings positioned 2.5mm outboard compared to the 105 unit so the GRX FD also has to be used; although my findings would appear to suggest that the 105 FD could potentially accomodate / perhaps even prefer operating in postitions more outboard of where it is currently...?

I was liking the idea of fitting the GRX chainset for the lower ratios it affords, however having used the bike a bit more and become more realistic about where to draw the line regarding how technical / rough the terrain is upon which its used, figure the 105 is fine. Also, I won't lament the cost and efficiency savings of sticking with what I have (although if I go touring something lower for big hills with luggage would be appreciated!).
As I've posted elsewhere I don't mind dealer stickers per-se and think they can add a certain nostagic charm and character to the bike, although the colour grates a bit in this case. The one on the original bike was definitely earmarked for removal as it was affixed on the pish and creased; giving good excuse and opportunity for removal. This one however appears straight, central and well fitted, so I think it can stay for the time being

I assume Shaun is part of Genesis? I think a "reviews" section on their site would be an excellent addition, although (as you can probably tell ) I'm known for speaking my mind so depending on how prissy the company is about protecting its image, might not want to publish my brutally-delivered opinion!

I totally agree about the cycling press; in other hobbies where I'm more knowledgeable I despise the associated media as it's just another cynical and manipulative marketing vehicle dressed up as a friendly ally of the end user.. when really it's just there to deceive then into parting with their money. When getting back into cycling I'd hoped / assumed the press was different; although I've since found this not to be the case

Anyway, ta for your interest - I'll update the thread with some more progress as / when it happens

 

[SpokeyDokey]

Thanks guys!

Apologies for letting the thread stagnate; FWIW I've got a load more to add - have found a few more things I'm not happy with, made a few cock-ups myself and am still deliberating over which way to go with the bits I still need to source; pedals, cages, Polar mount etc.

I've also been riding / enjoying the bike a lot which has consumed a lot of my time


If you have a problem with my posts I suggest you take it up with whoever has the gun to your head and is forcing you to read them..


Thanks

I'm the same to an extent.. I have no issue with legit wear but can't abide damage; especially if it could have been prevented with a bit of care or forethought. As is plainly obvious from this thread I'm very OCD about my gear and it affects me deeply if it does get dinged - life would be a lot easier if this wasn't the case but it is what it is and try as I might I struggle to change this.

I agree about the dealer stickers in principal - IMO they add a sense of uniqueness and history to a product. I was the same when I had the luxury of being able to own older / interesting cars when I was younger; a reference to the (now maybe deceased) supplying garage adding to the nostalgia.

I'm still undecided on the one on the bike as it's the only bit of yellow on it which IMO grates with the rest of the aesthetic. It'll probably stay though as I don't want to risk damaging the paint by attempting to remove it. In this regard I much prefer yours - more understated, subtly-located and in-keeping with the existing colour scheme!

I hope you're still making the most of yours in the great weather


Very nice! While doing my homework I noticed the price of the Ti model has rocketed over the years too; although to be fair some of this could be explained away by the higher-end groupsets on the newer models - the latest coming with full GRX IIRC, which is nice.

That's pretty shocking about the head badge; I'd hoped this was a one-off as it's bloody sloppy on a £1k bike - let alone on a three grand Ti offering such as yours! Did you manage to sort it out? I still plan to bother Genesis about this but want to make sure I cover all the issues in one hit rather than drip-feeding them a litany of issues and making myself even less popular than a single email doubtless will..

As you say the issue with the forks is unforgivable too; glad you got it sorted to your advantage. I really want to like the company as I love their products and the ethos they sell.. While not necessarily against their off-shoring of manufacure to Taiwan (since it's the bike-building capital of the world and produces a lot of top-end stuff) their products are pretty expensive for what they are and I don't want to feel that I'm being taken advantage of; paying through the nose for poorly-made gear that's making massive margins for a company who doesn't really care about the quality of the products they're supplying.

"Only" 12k - that's more than I've covered in my entire life I reckon! Glad to hear the bike's still going strong after this distance; although I'd hope if looked after the frames should effectively last forever. How many miles are you getting out of brake pads and discs out of interest? I notice that (as usual) they're quite a bit cheaper if sourced from Europe and am tempted to get a few spares in the bank if I order anything else from these suppliers.. less point if the bits are going to last for years though. That's unfortunate about the gear cable; I'm guessing they fail in the shifter due to the angles necessary to fit the current "under bar tape" routing...?

The frames certainly seem to come up large. I've gotten used to my Medium now and am glad I went this route, although the bike still feels big compared to my others and the large frame would have been far too big.

The saddle upgrade sounds like a decent way of saving a bit of weight; I'm currently getting on OK with the standard one so will stick with this for the time being although the Brooks certainly seem like a nice addition. I hear the rails prevent a lot of saddle set-back, so that probably rules them out for me as my current one could probably use a bit more as it is.

I fully understand about the frame protection; makes perfect sense tbh and you're a braver man than I using such an expensive and prized possession for commuting! On both my latest bikes I've intended to fit protection tape, but on both occasions have given up trying to assess / decide between what amounts to obscenely over-priced pieces of sticky-backed plastic.

I was dismayed to find a few chips on the underside of the chainstay from chain slap so have a chainstay protector en-route, while the mudguards have proven to be doing an excellent job of keeping the frame pretty clean and free from stonechips

I'd highly recommend the chain waxing; while a bit of a faff it makes the whole drivetrain so much cleaner and easier to live with. You might be spending a lot of time with the saucepan though if you're covering a lot of miles. I've not really done a "full cycle" with the new bike yet, but on my 10sp Boardman I'm getting around 300 miles per waxing. I have two chains and alternate them; allowing me to do multiple chains (including those from my other bikes) at the same time to make the process a bit more efficient.. not got another chain for the Genesis yet but have had a look and the 11sp items anre bloody expensive aren't they?!

Anyway, I hope you're still getting out on yours - do you have a thread on it? I'm sure people (myself included) would be interested to see it


Thanks chap - glad you found it of interest and I appreciate your encouragement!


Cheers - and yes; perhaps you were the reason I couldn't get my hands on the 2019 model! In retrospect I'm very glad I bought the bike when I did, since (probably along with everyone else) De Ver's stock appears to have been almost completely cleared out during the pandemic and I'd have been gutted had I missed out on enjoying the riding opportunity we currently have because I was too slow.

tbh I think I probably prefer the colour of the earlier model and would be interested to see some pics of it in the wild!

I'm glad you're liking yours too - I totally agree about the new terrain these bikes open up and have discovered some really nice little routes as a result, as well as slowly learning where to draw the line. It's a hugely versatile format and I've not been out on the road bike since I bought it, although this is partially because I can't be arsed to swap the pedals back over

One last thing FWIW; if you've not already I'd highly recommend you fit a chainstay protector as mine's already been damaged by chainslap. It's not turned up yet but after a lot of research I settled on one of these, which looks well-made, is British and should just fit from the published size. Will obvously update when it gets here.

Hope you're still finding the time to get out on yours


Thanks

That's interesting about the QR argument; not heard that one before but tbh sounds like a pretty spurious and flimsy defence for not making the change; perhaps they didn't want the cost and hassle of re-tooling / redesign or maybe they were concerned about TAs fizzling out as a fad rather than becoming the new standard as appears to be the case.

Either way I agree that it's a welcome change.. although sorry to disappoint but the TA still have the serrated faces that mark up the paint finish on (I guess now only one side of) the frame. It pains me to see this too; I thought about adding a washer but the damage is done now and it's probably preferable to having it come loose and result in an accident; as unlikley as this probably is.

It's funny you should mention the fork as I actually really like the skinny aesthetic and think that fat CFRP forks on an otherwise skinny-tubed steel bike look really out of place. While I appreciate that the fork adds a disproportionately large amount of mass to the frameset I specifically wanted a steel one because it seems that CFRP steerer tubes have a nasty habit of failing catastrophically, so steel was the obvious choice for peace of mind and longevity. Before all the composite fanboys start sharpening their knives I realise that these failures are relatively rare, although they are well-documented, often happen without warning, potentially have very serious consequences and are something that simply doesn't occur with steel items outside of massive impacts.

Yes, the FD is the current R7000 unit with the compact arm setup; you raise an interesting point and this is the first I've heard of this problem - do you have any links to any further information on this please?

I did actually spend quite a bit of time setting up the FD a week or so ago as I was pretty dissatisfied with the way it was working. FWIW I followed a mixture of Shimano's (slightly confusing) workshop guide, some stuff on Youtube and my own "intuiation".

From what I can remember the low limit screw is backed right out at the cage's inner-most setting as it's right at the end of its natural travel anyway. There's contact between the limit screw and its stop but in reality the screw is doing very little other than preventing the mech itself from limiting the cage's travel. This was necessary to get adequate clearance between the chain and inside of the cage when running 34/34, and I had to slacken off the clamp-on mount and rotate it slightly to achieve this - IIRC there's about 0.5mm clearance in the lowest gear.

Conversely the high limit screw is wound in quite a bit and I did struggle a little to get acceptable performance / clearance at the extreme ends of the system's operating evelope (34/34 and 50/11), although it's OK now. FWIW the cable tension is set up as per Shimano's guide (assuming I'm interpreting it correctly!) - with the datum lines on the FD assy aligned on the trim setting one down from the main big chainring position.

Both trim functions work fine and are necessary to prevent chain rub in normal use; especially on the big chainring where I find the trim setting is needed when maybe halfway through the rear cassette. I tend to run all the way up to the 2nd or 3rd largest rear sproket on the big ring as I believe these are still more efficient than the equivalent ratios on the small chainring; due to the greater chainring / sprocket diameters and correspondingly lower angular displacement of each chain link as they travel around the rings and sprockets.

Tbh Derailleur adjustment always twists my melon but from the limit screw positions it seems that the FD's operating envelope is currently biased right towards its most inboard settings. I've read that the GRX cranksets have their rings positioned 2.5mm outboard compared to the 105 unit so the GRX FD also has to be used; although my findings would appear to suggest that the 105 FD could potentially accomodate / perhaps even prefer operating in postitions more outboard of where it is currently...?

I was liking the idea of fitting the GRX chainset for the lower ratios it affords, however having used the bike a bit more and become more realistic about where to draw the line regarding how technical / rough the terrain is upon which its used, figure the 105 is fine. Also, I won't lament the cost and efficiency savings of sticking with what I have (although if I go touring something lower for big hills with luggage would be appreciated!).
As I've posted elsewhere I don't mind dealer stickers per-se and think they can add a certain nostagic charm and character to the bike, although the colour grates a bit in this case. The one on the original bike was definitely earmarked for removal as it was affixed on the pish and creased; giving good excuse and opportunity for removal. This one however appears straight, central and well fitted, so I think it can stay for the time being

I assume Shaun is part of Genesis? I think a "reviews" section on their site would be an excellent addition, although (as you can probably tell ) I'm known for speaking my mind so depending on how prissy the company is about protecting its image, might not want to publish my brutally-delivered opinion!

I totally agree about the cycling press; in other hobbies where I'm more knowledgeable I despise the associated media as it's just another cynical and manipulative marketing vehicle dressed up as a friendly ally of the end user.. when really it's just there to deceive then into parting with their money. When getting back into cycling I'd hoped / assumed the press was different; although I've since found this not to be the case

Anyway, ta for your interest - I'll update the thread with some more progress as / when it happens

Shaun is the CC site owner and he has plans to add a new section to the site that is pre-formatted for reviews such as yours - not sure when though.

No links re the issue on the FD - mine was a very early doors R series when they were very new, although it seems like only yesterday it was two years back.

I spent 6 hours trying to adjust it after the LBS had already had two goes at it, with no success, and I couldn't do it either. Even with the tension indicators absolutely spot-on I just couldn't get both trim functions to work. I think the tolerances on Shimano mech's are very very tight - 0.5mm is the thin end of absolutely nothing. The work-around of the rubber insert on the inside of the inner guide cage is really indicative of how hard it is to get the correct range of movement and to provide clearance in small/small ie they just can't do it and the noise is cancelled by the insert. My long cage (5701 non-R series also has the insert so it's not a new fix fudge). Trek USA (chat) were flummoxed too to be honest - as it was early doors they were only just beginning to pick up adjustment issues when I 'spoke' to them. No idea how it has panned out now - I haven't read of many people having R series adjustment problems to be fair.

 

[wafter]

Shaun is the CC site owner and he has plans to add a new section to the site that is pre-formatted for reviews such as yours - not sure when though.

No links re the issue on the FD - mine was a very early doors R series when they were very new, although it seems like only yesterday it was two years back.

I spent 6 hours trying to adjust it after the LBS had already had two goes at it, with no success, and I couldn't do it either. Even with the tension indicators absolutely spot-on I just couldn't get both trim functions to work. I think the tolerances on Shimano mech's are very very tight - 0.5mm is the thin end of absolutely nothing. The work-around of the rubber insert on the inside of the inner guide cage is really indicative of how hard it is to get the correct range of movement and to provide clearance in small/small ie they just can't do it and the noise is cancelled by the insert. My long cage (5701 non-R series also has the insert so it's not a new fix fudge). Trek USA (chat) were flummoxed too to be honest - as it was early doors they were only just beginning to pick up adjustment issues when I 'spoke' to them. No idea how it has panned out now - I haven't read of many people having R series adjustment problems to be fair.

Ahh, cool. In that case I'd be very happy for my review to be included

Terrifying how time flies, isn't it? What exactly was the issue with the trim functions - could you not feel them "clicking over" at the levers, were they physically not moving the cage or just not moving it enough to be effective?

I hear you with the tight tolerances; As mine is setup (which I believe gives as wider-range of movement as possible) there's still very little clearance between chain and cage at either extreme of the travel range. Maybe even insufficient at the top end but I use this less than the granny gear so it's a tradeoff I'm willing to take.

I'm not sure criticism of the insert it totally fair since presumably it also reduces noice when legitimately in contact with the chain (i.e. when shifting) while it's also a conveniently replaceable wear component.

I guess it's the usual case of there being no such thing as a free lunch; the consumer's apparent insatiable lust for more gears (if maybe most driven only by manufacturers' marketing divisions) means more critical tolerancing and setup, shorter component life, greater component cost and various other design compromises.

I'm interested to hear more, although hopefully the issue only afflicted earlier iterations and has been resolved by those hyper-efficient Japanese by now!

 

[SpokeyDokey]

Ahh, cool. In that case I'd be very happy for my review to be included

Terrifying how time flies, isn't it? What exactly was the issue with the trim functions - could you not feel them "clicking over" at the levers, were they physically not moving the cage or just not moving it enough to be effective?

I hear you with the tight tolerances; As mine is setup (which I believe gives as wider-range of movement as possible) there's still very little clearance between chain and cage at either extreme of the travel range. Maybe even insufficient at the top end but I use this less than the granny gear so it's a tradeoff I'm willing to take.

I'm not sure criticism of the insert it totally fair since presumably it also reduces noice when legitimately in contact with the chain (i.e. when shifting) while it's also a conveniently replaceable wear component.

I guess it's the usual case of there being no such thing as a free lunch; the consumer's apparent insatiable lust for more gears (if maybe most driven only by manufacturers' marketing divisions) means more critical tolerancing and setup, shorter component life, greater component cost and various other design compromises.

I'm interested to hear more, although hopefully the issue only afflicted earlier iterations and has been resolved by those hyper-efficient Japanese by now!

I could set it up with the two 'normal' positions but only with either one of the two trim positions - but not both.

 

[wafter]

I could set it up with the two 'normal' positions but only with either one of the two trim positions - but not both.

Ahh, OK - so they were physically "working" but you could only get one where it was effective? Sounds like a geometry problem with the levers or mech tbh; so potentially something that could be sorted with a revision rather than being a fundamental issue with the design. I certainly hope it's not the latter anyway as Shimano are one of the few companies I have any respect for / feel I can trust to make some decent kit!

 

[uphillstruggler]

@wafter

Just for you, not quite wild though

 

[wafter]

@wafter

Just for you, not quite wild though View attachment 521765

Ta - looks nice from what I can see! I like the red and reckon it goes better with the skinwall tyres..

That shot was met with a moment of abject confusion before I realised the "cows" were inanimate

 

[uphillstruggler]

Ta - looks nice from what I can see! I like the red and reckon it goes better with the skinwall tyres..

That shot was met with a moment of abject confusion before I realised the "cows" were inanimate

It’s what MK is famous for, that and roundabouts 😂

On the other hand, this image was taken about 3.5miles away

 

[Chris Long]

I nearly went with a Croix de Fer last year, I still really like the look of them. Went with a Temple Adventure Disc in the end and bloody love it. Only found them by chance, otherwise would have been a CDF. Although I'm a stickler for detail and even the seat post pint issue may have put me off...

 

[uphillstruggler]

I nearly went with a Croix de Fer last year, I still really like the look of them. Went with a Temple Adventure Disc in the end and bloody love it. Only found them by chance, otherwise would have been a CDF. Although I'm a stickler for detail and even the seat post pint issue may have put me off...

just had a quick mosey onto their site, very good choice

 

[wafter]

I nearly went with a Croix de Fer last year, I still really like the look of them. Went with a Temple Adventure Disc in the end and bloody love it. Only found them by chance, otherwise would have been a CDF. Although I'm a stickler for detail and even the seat post pint issue may have put me off...

I think I gave them a look before I committed to the Genesis.

They look really nice - love the retro aesthetic / more traditional top tube angle, but was put off by some of the spec compared to the CdF (flat-mount calipers and through-axles were a big sell to me) while it was a bit over-budget too.

Not surprised you're very pleased with it

 

[wafter]

A little progress and a lot of ridling means an update is probably in order

I've now had the CdF for five weeks and have covered over 600 miles in this time. I've been trying to get the bike as I like it; through setup, adding some decent accessories and sorting some of the small issues I've not been happy with.

I've also suffered some setbacks / cockups. I was gutted to find a couple of chips on the underside of the chainstay from chain slap, and while Genesis publish a list of paint codes that give (exact / approximate) matches for the colours used on their bikes, sadly they don't list anything for this model. I'm going to drop them an email at some point of the off-chance that this info might be available in future, but failing that I think I'll look to touch the frame up with the nearest colour I can find in enamel paint to prevent the chance of any corrosion.. unless anyone has any better suggestions!

The eagle-eyed of you may have noticed something amiss with the chain routing on my rear derailleur in some of the early pics. This is because I managed to pass it over the outside of the top retaining tab on the cage, rather than inside / over the jockey wheel. Unfortunately this was only noticed a ride ot two later (when investigating why the shifting and pedalling smoothness was not as it should have been), by which time the chain had worn a couple of slots in the edges of the tab on the cage

I've since dressed this damage down and touched up the area in question with a bit of black acrylic paint. To say I'm both angry and ashamed by this cockup would be an understatement. However it's done now, doesn't harm the function of the RD, isn't noticeable in use and is at least on a replaceable part which could be changed if my OCD really demanded it.


Confessions out of the way we can move onto (mostly!) happier things!

As is painfully apparant from this thread I'm picky about what I spend my money on and this is reflected by the quest for the various accessories required by the bike; which so far has taken hours of research and deliberation over what to buy and where to source it from. As usual things haven't been plain sailing due to a few issues with delivery and product quality, but I'm slowly getting there.

Yesterday saw the arrival of a long-awaited delivery, which felt like a tipping point in the battle of getting the bike how I want it.. So after fitting the new bits I took the camera out with me to get some pics of bike as it stands

I'm generally happy with the quality of the bike's finiishing kit, the one exception being its seatpost clamp. As already covered the clamp arrived with a good burr on the inside edge of the bore that slips over he frame; which had caused signficant paint damage through being forced on and tightend up during assembly. Added to this the angled cut in the clamp across its clamping bolt seemingly applies unever pressure to the frame; concentrating load in one corner of its slot (the RHS) and damaging the corresponding area of the seatpost

I spent ages looking at all sorts of clamps; a process complicated to an extent by the relatively few available in the steel-specific size of 30mm, since most are larger to suit thicker-walled ally frames.

Ultimately it came down to a choice between Hope and Salsa items. While it would have been nice to have bought the British offering, I wasn't too keen on its aesthetic and the deal-killer was their use of a hollow clamping bolt - which apparent has a rep for being a bit fragile. A ridiculous design compromise in the name of saving literally one or two grams IMO, so I went with the Salsa alternative.

As usual this proved less than straightforward, with none of the necessary size / colour in the UK so I eventually sourced one from Bike24.de; at a good price and with reasonable postage that was shared with the Polar GPS mount I also bought from them. I can't fault the service from this supplier and the stuff was dispatched very quickly; however unfortunately I was out when delivery was attempted on Friday, which led to hours of chasing DHL as they left no calling card and their websites / phone services are pretty dismal

This little piece of ally has brought me a silly amount of joy and contentment; being one of the few items I've bought that for once has exceeded my expectations. It's nicely designed, beautifully machined, perfectly finished and has around 16mm internal depth as opposed to the minimal 9mm of the original; thus spreading the clamping load over a much larger area which should be kinder to the components involved.

It fits well and only needed a little persuasion to slip over the seatpost. For now it's been nipped up to 5Nm (as per the original) but has a larger M5 (v. M4) bolt so may require a little more (especially considering its size); although it held perfectly during yesterday's ride.

Before fitting I cleaned the frame and ran over its inside edge with a jeweller's file as it was slightly sharp. I can confirm that the Reynolds 725 is definitely a fair bit harder than your average / as-received steel; in keeping with it's "heat-treated" claim. I wonder how welding affects its temper and whether the frames are subject to any additional heat treatement after construction..?


The next nice addition was the Polar "out front" mount for my V650 GPS unit. I already have one of these on my Boardman so knew what to expect; again it's nicely machined from the solid (although this is probably a bit wasteful given it's shape), well-finished and places the GPS unit in a more convenient forward position - both for observation and in terms of leaving space on the bars for more paraphanalia. The free space on the stem is also welcome as this is a convenient place to grip the bike when wheeling it around..

The mount after being fitted with some PVC tape to prevent marking of the bars and being tweaked into position:

New bits attached I went out for a slow ride around the local cycle paths, woods and lakes. The bike as it currently stands:

GPS unit in place on its new mount, fitted to the fairly wide and expansive flared bars. I'm still not 100% sold on these due to their long reach and find myself gripping just forward of the bends / backs of the hoods in normal use as the reach to the hoods is a bit much - especially in terms of inspriring confidence off-road. The drops are the preferred choice for technical bits and descents, while the hoods do offer a nice stretched-out aero-ish position for big efforts on smooth flat surfaces with their knobs gripped and forearms resting on the tops of the bars. The backs of the drops are well-positioned for coasting comfortably at speed on unchallenging terrain.

I've toyed with the idea of either more compact bars from an earlier model or reducing the stem length by maybe 10-20mm, however appreciate that the gains this would bring in some areas would be to the detriment of others. from an aero perspective I like the fairly stretched-out position afforded by the long reach to the bars on this otherwise quite upright bike, am tight and change-averse so don't see a lot being altered unless I happen to see a nice stem at a silly price.


My lovely Moon Pulsar rear light. Not a new purchase; being sourced some time ago as a general purpose lamp for all my bikes. I was particularly taken by this light as it's small, light, bright has a great mounting system that's versatile; fast and easy to swap between bikes. It takes AAA batteries - allowing me to use standard rechargeables, carry spares and even use dirty disposibles if I was really pushed. This was one of the last removable-battery-powered lights I could find; everything now being USB-rechargeable and meaning realistically they have to be removed from the bike for charging, are dead once the internal battery's had it and leave you screwed if they run out of juice on a ride.

I only paid a tenner for this light and bought the last two the supplier had in stock, so have a spare should this one fail, although it's been grand so far

Some time after the photo-stop in the sun-scorched fields above I found myself in the shady tranqulity of some local woodland so stopped for a few more shots.

my old faithful Shimano A600 pedals; swapped over from my Boardman while I try to find some suitable items for the CdF. I'd pretty much settled on a pair of new XT items, however the idea of another set of A600s has grown on me as the more frequent on-off nature of "gravel" riding has afforded more practice clipping in than I've had on long road rides, while I'm now a bit more confident and aware of my limitations off-road so single-sided pedals seem more viable.

The new XTs are about £70 while I can get a used pair of A600s for around £25 (made me sick to see a nice pair sold on ebay some weeks ago for £7!). While I'm a picky sod I have no issue buying used pedals as they only get mashed up are impossible to keep in nice nick..


Another necessary purchase was a chainstay protector. As usual this was far from straightforward due to size constraints (particularly the skinny chainstay compared to that of most MTBs). This plain Neoprene / Velcro one came from Undead Cycles; being reasonably priced and reputedly made in Britain. Clearance is a bit tight at the tyre and it's a bit baggy around the back end, but seems to do the job nicely - although I'll be having it off soon just to be sure everything's well underneath!

(Continued in next post due to image count limits..)

 

[wafter]

...ctd.

I like the understated green-on-green branding used across most of the frame:

Even the Reynolds 725 badge has been altered to remain in-keeping with the colour scheme, which is a nice touch. The white "Reynolds" text reflecting that used on the main Genesis text and logo on the down tube and fork. The yellow of the dealer sticker is somewhat incongruous, but I think it adds character so it can stay.

The subtle branding is also evident at the bottom of the chainstays:

Note also in the above pic the 15mm washers used at the mudguard stay mounting points to protect them and the frame, as well as the lovely clean waxed drivetrain

The "dork disk" (as the yanks like to call them) remains in place; while not too keen on its aesthetic is adds very little mass and if it prevents / reduces the change of catastrophic damage in the event of a disaster it's very welcome to stay!


There are a few nice aesthetic touches on the bike, including these nice contour map / relief details on the steerer-tube cap, bars and seatpost:

The saddle is nicely shaped and generally comfy; with the exception that I get a bit of perineal pressure when right forward on the bars - although I think my poor flexability is as much to blame as anything. The seatpost appears good quality with a nice two-bolt setup that allows fine adjustment of the saddle's rake, although fore-aft adjustment is fairly limited and I'd have liked a bit more rearward offset than the maximum the unit allows.

Unfortunately the clamping bolts appear to be a bit too long, as evidenced by the front one chewing up the underside of the saddle with only a little forward-slope applied to the seat 5mm shorter bolts would have made this a non-issue.


The bike came with WTB Riddler tyres; which nice as they are were wearing fast due to their predoment use on tarmac and fine-ish tread pattern. I've replaced them with a pair of Continental SportContact IIs; which roll very nicely on-road while offering a surprising amount of grip off-road considering they're essentially slicks. As an aside, as much as I like the retro gumwalls on the WTBs I think I prefer to lower-key aesthetic of the all-black contis.

I've done maybe 350-400 miles on them so far; the fine tread has just about worn off the centre of the rear tyre in this time and I've had one pinch-puncture, which tbh would probably have happened to any tubed tyre under the circumstances.

the SKS Longboard guards continue to do and excellent job of keeping the bike clean and free of stonechips; my only complaints being that the plastic picks up lots of fine scratches during cleaning (unsurprisingly really and completely forgiveable) while the front guard sits high above the wheel, but this isn't the end of the world. On the whole I remain very happy with them.


From the front the extent of the bars' flare can be seen, as well as the considerable outboard position of the 105 brake / shifter levers - which nicely aids operation. Less immediately noticeable is the pished head badge; which sits off to the RHS (LHS as viewed in the pic) - sloppy and inexcusible on a bike of this price tbh and something I'll be whinging about to the manufacturer.

I think that's about all for now. So far (a few niggles aside) I've thoroughly enjoyed my time on the bike; it having opened up a whole new world of off-road routes to explore. I'm slowly getting more comfortable with riding away from the tarmac and now have a much better idea of the limitations of both myself and the cycle.

When researching this purchase the CdF 30 stood out as ticking pretty much all of the boxes, and I'm pleased to say that this still seems to be the case. While I love the sturdyness and aesthetic of the steel frame, in use standout features are the very useful 34/34 crawler gear and the sublime hydraulic brakes; which now they've bedded in constantly impress with their lightness of operation and ease of modulation.

There are still a number of things to sort out before I'll be completely happy with the bike - touch up the chips on the chainstay, replace some of the fixings with stainless alternatives and source some bottle cages.. I did buy a pair of Topeak Shuttle ally cages but these turned out to be pished / poorly made so they have to go back, although the supplier in question is currently dragging their arses and I suspect I might have to get Paypal on the case. A shame as otherwise they looked spot on


Anyway, I hope this thread continues to provide some interest / entertainment to those with the stones to wade throught it all, as well as hopefully providing some useful information to anyone in the market for one of these excellent machines or the bits I've slung on my example

 

[chriswoody]

Great review wafter and a nice bike, good to see you're out and about enjoying it.

One thing I'm curious about is the chain slap you mention, you've got the GRX derailleur on there which should have a clutch and as such eliminate or minimise chain slap. My SRAM derailleur has a clutch and no matter how rough the ground I've never heard any chain slap at all, which is why I'm surprised to hear your suffering from chain slap with the GRX. I think you can switch the clutch on and off with Shimano derailleurs and was wondering if yours is actually switched on?