The bakers' thread

[figbat]

I have used HWC pastry to make meat pies before, for consumption hot - it works well for this application too.

 

[T4tomo]

That's something I've never done, but always wanted to try, as I absolutely LOVE a good pork pie.

a few "action" shots...

 

[Tom B]

The mozzarella can be more of an issue as it bleeds fluid when cooked - I’ll tear it up and press between sheets of kitchen roll before adding to the pizza, which is done near the end of cooking to prevent browning it (since I use a home oven that takes a few minutes to do the pizza). The basil leaves go on as the pizza comes out.

I have tried various ways of drying Mozza. I find cutting it with a sharp knife and laying on a cooling rack or mesh for a few hours works well.

Putting it in a salad spinner didn't work well..... I'm too tight to use kitchen roll.

Clearly the stuff they sell grated with potato starch in bags is of a different breed.

I can now hand raise a hot water crust pork pie.

I keep meaning to have a go.... What filling did you use?

My issue is. As much as I love Pork Pie, Mrs B isnt a fan and there is only so much you can eat in a few days. Its a big faff to make, just for one or two pies. I have a jolly nice looking recipe for a chicken and bacon pie of similar constitution. I'm working on bringing her around to that idea.

 

[T4tomo]

I keep meaning to have a go.... What filling did you use?

Pork!

Diced shoulder and / or loin are the preferred cuts
I have some spare pastry we made to make up another time. I'm tempted to fancy those up a bit maybe add black pudding and chopped apple to one. Chorizo and pork shoulder (or chicken thighs) would also go well, maybe call that Pie-ella.

Defo a faff, as you need to chill stuff between stages, but you can freeze the pastry in pie sized pieces to make up later, and you can also freeze the uncooked pies to egg wash and cook from frozen later, so it does lend itself to a batch and freeze process, then just cook what you want. We have one cooked, two raw and 2 pastry lumps in the freezer!

 

[Tom B]

Pork!

Diced shoulder and / or loin are the preferred cuts
I have some spare pastry we made to make up another time. I'm tempted to fancy those up a bit maybe add black pudding and chopped apple to one. Chorizo and pork shoulder (or chicken thighs) would also go well, maybe call that Pie-ella.

See, now for me a Pork Pie is one of those things that shouldn't be faffed about with, pork pie means pork..... but how do they keep it pink?

Defo a faff, as you need to chill stuff between stages, but you can freeze the pastry in pie sized pieces to make up later, and you can also freeze the uncooked pies to egg wash and cook from frozen later, so it does lend itself to a batch and freeze process, then just cook what you want. We have one cooked, two raw and 2 pastry lumps in the freezer!

How do you deal with the frozen lumps when it comes to pie making? do you warm them? Have you done anything different with them as opposed to the "use now" pastry?

I always find pasty (and dough) that I freeze needs more moisture adding if i leave it to rest. Ive got some dough in the fridge that is rapidly turning to sourdough that was a bit too sticky at the weekend, but now its just right despite being covered twice. Ive often postulated that somehow the gluten soaks up the water.

 

[T4tomo]

See, now for me a Pork Pie is one of those things that shouldn't be faffed about with, pork pie means pork..... but how do they keep it pink?



How do you deal with the frozen lumps when it comes to pie making? do you warm them? Have you done anything different with them as opposed to the "use now" pastry?

I always find pasty (and dough) that I freeze needs more moisture adding if i leave it to rest. Ive got some dough in the fridge that is rapidly turning to sourdough that was a bit too sticky at the weekend, but now its just right despite being covered twice. Ive often postulated that somehow the gluten soaks up the water.

Well it shouldn't be pink, a proper one is made with hand diced (not minced) fresh shoulder and loin so should cook "grey". If its pink when cooked then its made with cured pork, so its bacon pie. You can do a mixture of cured and fresh - there are no set rules (unless you want to brand & sell them as Melton Mowbray pies and then there are rules!

re faffing - yes tradition says just pork, salt and pepper in the filling and jelly added once cooked and cooled, and the cooled again before eating. Our teacher did say under her breath about barbaric Yorkshiremen jellying whilst warm and eating pies hot. I remember pie & pea (always mushy) suppers were a big thing back in the day and a warm pork pie is a thing of beauty.

No recipe change re freezing, just defrost in fridge overnight / 24hrs - or you can keep in fridge (i.e don't freeze) for ~5 days anyway given it has a high fat content. needs to come out of fridge a while before you need / knead it and be given a brief working before you mould it. it warms in your hands are you work it, they key is warm enough to mould but not to warm that it doesn't hold its shape.

Hot water crust pastry is very forgiving, its more like modelling clay, shortcrust pastry less so and I imagine bread dough is even less so and sough dough is the most contrary of flour and water mixtures, a positive prima donna.

 

[Tom B]

Well it shouldn't be pink, a proper one is made with hand diced (not minced) fresh shoulder and loin so should cook "grey". If its pink when cooked then its made with cured pork, so its bacon pie. You can do a mixture of cured and fresh - there are no set rules (unless you want to brand & sell them as Melton Mowbray pies and then there are rules!

The next time I am in the butchers, i'll ask.

re faffing - yes tradition says just pork, salt and pepper in the filling and jelly added once cooked and cooled, and the cooled again before eating. Our teacher did say under her breath about barbaric Yorkshiremen jellying whilst warm and eating pies hot. I remember pie & pea (always mushy) suppers were a big thing back in the day and a warm pork pie is a thing of beauty.

Perhaps I live to close to Yorkshire for or your teachers liking. I'm at least 25% Yorkshireish, I certainly have the archetypal level of parsimony and have spent time at college and working in Wigan, but warm pork pie is deffo a thing. Mushy peas is normally served with Meat and Potato. A meat pie is also a thing of beauty - Hollands versions are at the lowest level of acceptability.

A meat pie (or indeed meat and potato pie or a pasty) on a barm cake is a standard lunch option in wigan (aka Wigan Kebab)

Carr's Pasties have quite an industry in supplying pasties and buckets of mushy peas to events.

No recipe change re freezing, just defrost in fridge overnight / 24hrs - or you can keep in fridge (i.e don't freeze) for ~5 days anyway given it has a high fat content. needs to come out of fridge a while before you need / knead it and be given a brief working before you mould it. it warms in your hands are you work it, they key is warm enough to mould but not to warm that it doesn't hold its shape.

Hot water crust pastry is very forgiving, its more like modelling clay, shortcrust pastry less so and I imagine bread dough is even less so and sough dough is the most contrary of flour and water mixtures, a positive prima donna.

As winter approaches its deffo on my list

 

[Reynard]

Mmmm, you do want a bit of fat content in a pork pie, so a mix of shoulder and belly would be nice. And the very best pies I've had have been really well-seasoned, pepper mostly, but if I were making my own, I'd probably add some sage, oregano and plenty of garlic.

About seven or eight years ago, Tesco did a Christmas pudding pork pie - I bought one on yellow sticker because I was curious and am always up for trying something at least once. The pastry, shaped to look like a pudding, was absolutely godawful (probably why they didn't sell), but the filling included dried fruit and spices and was actually very good.

Normally I always buy at least one giant pork pie for the holiday season, but I'm now really tempted to make my own.

 

[figbat]

I’ve made a few but always fail to achieve the real crispy crunch base pastry that the best ones have - my high reference is Dickinson & Morris from Melton Mowbray, particularly their in-shop white-wrapped ones. I think maybe I am not generous enough in the fat/lard department.

 

[Reynard]

I’ve made a few but always fail to achieve the real crispy crunch base pastry that the best ones have - my high reference is Dickinson & Morris from Meltom Mowbray, particularly their in-shop white-wrapped ones. I think maybe I am not generous enough in the fat/lard department.

The Tesco own-brand version of the Dickinson & Morris is also very good. As is their "finest" ultimate pork pie.

Although when cooking fat prices were VERY high last year, the quality of the pastry took a bit of a nose dive, but I'm happy to report that the last one I had was back up to snuff again

 

[Tom B]

Update on the Pork Pie Situation...

The butcher reports that he uses Shoulder loin and belly to keep the fat up. I asked if he used any cured meats and he guessed where I was going and said no. He adds salt (probably one of the seasoning mixes so beloved of the modern butcher) to the mix to keep it pink, he reports a grey pork pie tastes fine, but people think it looks awful. The salt content apparently breaks down protein and keeps it pink.

Ill ask butcher 2 what he thinks tomorrow

 

[Reynard]

Update on the Pork Pie Situation...

The butcher reports that he uses Shoulder loin and belly to keep the fat up. I asked if he used any cured meats and he guessed where I was going and said no. He adds salt (probably one of the seasoning mixes so beloved of the modern butcher) to the mix to keep it pink, he reports a grey pork pie tastes fine, but people think it looks awful. The salt content apparently breaks down protein and keeps it pink.

Ill ask butcher 2 what he thinks tomorrow

Ah, I was right about the shoulder & belly mix, then...

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Did anybody watch Nadia’s Simple Spices the other night? She baked a paneer & onion loaf which looked so good I could smell it already.

I don’t have any paneer but the internet said I could substitute it with feta, and luckily I had just enough dried onion left to do the recipe.

It’s in the oven right now and has maybe another ten minutes before I bring t out.

On the show she did hers in a loaf tin, whereas I’ve done mine as a bloomer.

Fingers crossed!

 

[glasgowcyclist]

I’m really happy with the crumb, it’s beautifully soft. However, I couldn’t taste any of the two teaspoons of chili powder so I would probably use chili flakes next time. Otherwise, it’s excellent.

 

[C R]

I don’t have any paneer but the internet said I could substitute it with feta, and luckily I had just enough dried onion left to do the recipe

If the word means the same in Hindi as it does in Farsi then paneer just means cheese. Admittedly, Persian cheese is usually kept in brine, so feta should be a good approximation.