HGV Posters In London

[Black Sheep]

I was in London visiting family this weekend, and saw this poster an awful lot:

I have to say, if HGVs really can't see that much around them, what the f*** are we doing letting them drive around our inner cities?

Why the hell are TFL deciding how dangerous these vehicles are, and instead of either demaning they do something about the amount of blind spots around their vehicles, or just keeping these things out of built up urban areas, they put a load of posters up telling cyclists to be careful around them, thus passing on the responsibility to the potential victims?

It's like putting posters up aimed at young women saying "don't wear that little skirt, there are loads of rapists about" or something.

FFS.

Over time lorrys and vans have got bigger as more transported in one load keeps costs down.

Many companies are sending more freight by rail (Eddie Stowbarts have a couple of trains now!) but the last part of the journey has to be on the road to get to the final destination.

the size increase has grown little by little, and on the whole, most HGV drivers seem to know what they are doing and are proficient and professional, unfortunately mistakes happen.

Don't see a problem with it (the poster).......... there are plenty of stupid cyclists that go up the inside of trucks/busses - some really simple messages need to be put over - this is fairly easy to understand.

Driving/cycling - you need to be aware of both your vehicle's blind spot and those of other vehicles....

Indeed, two separate issues - HGV blindspots for the driver and people not knowing better putting themselves in danger - poster being aimed at the latter. The poster is intended to educate cyclists that cycling up the left of an HGV is a stupid place to be - some of them have read the highway code about not going up the left side of a turning HGV, some haven't - if the poster saves a handful of lives by educating cyclists to be aware of this danger then it is good.



The side issue of visibility from the cab is something that does need to be addressed, presumably though driver training and better mirror arangements / cameras or sensors

 

[summerdays]

Unfortunately, yes. As soon as the cab turns, all the mirrors are directed uselessly at the side of the trailer.

There are some experimental lorries with arrays of ultrasonic "reversing sensors" mounted along the side of them. They are cheap and IMO should be made mandatory-fit.

Interesting point that I had never considered before, although I have taken advantage of one of those things when you sit in the cab to see what the driver's view is like.

 

[zimzum42]

People are assuming there is less driver education when this is most likely not the case - how many of you have been to truck stops or read trucking magazines? Am sure there is loads of stuff for them too.

Perhaps skip lorry drivers could do with a bit more though!!!!

 

[Origamist]

Ok, I do understand the issue of muppets undertaking lorries and buses, but the thing that really shocked me about that poster is how HUGE a lorry drivers blind spot is presented as being.

Is it really the case that three meters out from the entire length of a lorry is invisible to the driver?

If that really is the case, shouldn't something be done about that?

As I said earlier, that HGV is not representative of all HGVs as it does not need to compy with stricter post 2000 EU regulations. So "yes", that particular HGV might well not be able to see all of the cyclists in that exact moment, but HGVs with the full complement of mirrors (wide angle, close proximity etc) would see more. I am also questioning whether the nearside mirror was optimally adjusted. IMO, this is creative licence by the TFL team in order to highlight the problem - whether this exaggeration is a good thing or not, is another issue.

Finally, this is a snap-shot of a manoeuvre: before moving right if the HGV driver had checked his mirrors, he would have seen far more of those cyclists on his nearside.

 

[jimboalee]

As I said earlier, that HGV is not representative of all HGVs as it does not need to compy with stricter post 2000 EU regulations. So "yes", that particular HGV might well not be able to see all of the cyclists in that exact moment, but HGVs with the full complement of mirrors (wide angle, close proximity etc) would see more. I am also questioning whether the nearside mirror was optimally adjusted. IMO, there is a bit of creative licence by the TFL team in order to highlight the problem - whether this exaggeration is a good thing or not, is another issue.

Finally, this is a snap-shot of a manoeuvre: before moving right if the HGV driver had checked his mirrors, he would have seen far more of those cyclists on his nearside.

Agreed. Later Model Year trucks should have a Convex Safety Mirror.

The trucker, is stuck between a rock and a hard place. He has to take a wide line to negotiate the turn without putting the trailer wheels on the footpath, and in by getting into a suitable position, cyclist ride up the inside.

In the poster, the trucker has turned his cab in the direction he intends to move, ( and should be indicating with amber flashing lamps ).

It is not only London where this happens. London has a greater cycle commuter population so TfL are doing something to educate cyclists.

The poster DOES NOT say enough. It contains clues, as I have described, to indicate to the cyclists the truckers intention. These clues are way too cryptic and prob not seen by the cyclists who would ride up the inside.

A big curved arrow above the truck wouldn't have gone amiss.

I hope TfL scan the web for comments on this kind of thing.

 

[Origamist]

People are assuming there is less driver education when this is most likely not the case - how many of you have been to truck stops or read trucking magazines? Am sure there is loads of stuff for them too.

Perhaps skip lorry drivers could do with a bit more though!!!!

Zim, have you got any info/links to poster campaings in Truck mags, as I'd like to see how the freight industry handles the issue.

 

[Sheffield_Tiger]

Ok, I do understand the issue of muppets undertaking lorries and buses, but the thing that really shocked me about that poster is how HUGE a lorry drivers blind spot is presented as being

Better to present it as that big anyway.

Saying "all these can't be seen except the cyclist in red and the one in green right at the back who might possibly be seen so you're probably okay to go there but no further" wouldn't be sensible

Better just to say "all that space to the left of the lorry - KEEP OUT"

 

[zimzum42]

Zim, have you got any info/links to poster campaings in Truck mags, as I'd like to see how the freight industry handles the issue.

No, I don't. All I'm saying is that I assume they would have something, it's just unlikely it would be posters like the ones aimed at cyclists on bus stops and stuff, it's more likely they'll have stuff in truck stops and magazines...

 

[Origamist]

Better to present it as that big anyway.

Saying "all these can't be seen except the cyclist in red and the one in green right at the back who might possibly be seen so you're probably okay to go there but no further" wouldn't be sensible

Better just to say "all that space to the left of the lorry - KEEP OUT"

It's important to remember that HGV drivers can put you in their nearside blidspots by poorly judged overtakes - these are potentially v dangerous on the approach to junctions. Either slam on the brakes or if that fails try to mount the kerb in order to avoid being left-hooked.

 

[Rhythm Thief]

It's also worth remembering that a blind spot doesn't have to be somewhere the driver can't see at all. Those convex blind spot mirrors - which every truck I've ever driven has been fitted with - are good, but you don't get a great view in them and a cyclist can easily be missed in them. This is especially the case if the mirrors are speckled with rain and it's dark and all you can see in the mirrors are lights. If an ad like this stops cyclists riding up the inside of lorries, it's a good thing.

And besides, if tfl had just made an ad featuring a single bike next to the cab, there'd be plenty of people out there who would think they were safe while next to the trailer ...

 

[dellzeqq]

People are assuming there is less driver education when this is most likely not the case - how many of you have been to truck stops or read trucking magazines? Am sure there is loads of stuff for them too.

Perhaps skip lorry drivers could do with a bit more though!!!!

spot on. TfL and the police have been getting the message across to HGV drivers for about four years. And yet.........artics are the minority offenders. It's construction traffic, and particularly skip lorries that post the greatest threat.

 

[Origamist]

And besides, if tfl had just made an ad featuring a single bike next to the cab, there'd be plenty of people out there who would think they were safe while next to the trailer ...

Or directly in front of the cab (no Class VI mirror).

 

[gaz]

One thing to look at.. how many HGV's do you see in central london during commuting hours?
I bet it's single figures for the week.

 

[galaxy1]

TfL say - "All of these bikes are in the driver's blind spot."

So let's encourage them to get in that position!

Nice work TfL.

(From here).

That's a point,that's where the cycle lanes would be so, if it's dangerous to ride in the cycle lane why have it there?

 

[DrSquirrel]

That's a point,that's where the cycle lanes would be so, if it's dangerous to ride in the cycle lane why have it there?

Aye, would make sense to end it earlier but it would make a mess.

What would be better here is an ASL to get the bikes all the way to the front.