But it is completely traceable digitally.
Can shops legally refuse money.
- Thread starter postman
- Start date
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Chislenko
Veteran
To be fair every time I pay by card I get an instant notification from the Nat West app showing amount and who you have paid.
So if I bought something in the Co-op the app would say £23.99 at Co-op. If it was some other name I would know instantly and could raise the issue there and then.
So if I bought something in the Co-op the app would say £23.99 at Co-op. If it was some other name I would know instantly and could raise the issue there and then.
classic33
Leg End Member
As is money.
And going back to the post that kicked this off, if as a discount they gave you 10% off for paying by card, how do you prove what the 10% was for?
Eh? If you give me £20 for a job and I keep it in my back pocket, I'd like to see you prove it.
classic33
Leg End Member
In a work setting, easy.
Most places stipulate no cash to be carried on the person. Any cash would therefore be work related.
markemark
Über Member
As are many crimes. But that doesn’t stop some people.
Define "most places". I have worked in many places and never encountered this rule.
True, but there is a reason that musicians, tradesmen and travellers all prefer cash in hand...
classic33
Leg End Member
Shops, as per the thread title.
Perhaps in big shops - but then they don't encourage cash in hand and it would be obvious if you were using a zettle. The local newsagent not so much.
Electric_Andy
Heavy Metal Fan
- Location
- Plymouth
The rules we were taught when I worked in retail were quite simple (don't know if they've changed much in 25 years):
1. A shop/business can refuse to sell you something with valid reason as long as it's not attributed to race, gender, age etc. E.g they have limited stock and don't want to sell it all to one person, or they've seen you throwing flour and eggs outside so won't sell you flower or eggs. This could also extend to a DIY shop for example, if you told them you were buying nails to nail animals to your ceiling, then they could refuse on the grounds that the product is not going to be used as intended and may cause harm or distress.
2. The transaction is not complete until you exchange cash for goods or services at the till. If the price in the shop is wrong, they can still notice it and say "that's not the price, it's actually £100 not £10". They are not obliged to honour the ticket price if it's been mis-labelled, so you can then decide if you want to pay £100 or leave the shop empty handed. However, if they charge you £10 by accident and the sale goes through, they are not allowed to call you back and say you've not paid enough. That's their mistake and their loss.
3. Legal tender can be used to pay for anything as long as the seller agrees. Seller can refuse to be paid in postage stamps for example, or you can refuse to accept £100 worth of 1p pieces. They can also say no to the sale if you present a £20 note and they don't have enough change (or don't want to give all their change to you).
In larger stores, point 3 is not really exercised very often IME. In the shop I worked in, we'd empty all of our float money to give customer change, and then ask for more change from the office. The only reason they didn't like doing this was because the manager had to count a nearly new open bag of coppers at the end of the night, so basically they were just lazy.
1. A shop/business can refuse to sell you something with valid reason as long as it's not attributed to race, gender, age etc. E.g they have limited stock and don't want to sell it all to one person, or they've seen you throwing flour and eggs outside so won't sell you flower or eggs. This could also extend to a DIY shop for example, if you told them you were buying nails to nail animals to your ceiling, then they could refuse on the grounds that the product is not going to be used as intended and may cause harm or distress.
2. The transaction is not complete until you exchange cash for goods or services at the till. If the price in the shop is wrong, they can still notice it and say "that's not the price, it's actually £100 not £10". They are not obliged to honour the ticket price if it's been mis-labelled, so you can then decide if you want to pay £100 or leave the shop empty handed. However, if they charge you £10 by accident and the sale goes through, they are not allowed to call you back and say you've not paid enough. That's their mistake and their loss.
3. Legal tender can be used to pay for anything as long as the seller agrees. Seller can refuse to be paid in postage stamps for example, or you can refuse to accept £100 worth of 1p pieces. They can also say no to the sale if you present a £20 note and they don't have enough change (or don't want to give all their change to you).
In larger stores, point 3 is not really exercised very often IME. In the shop I worked in, we'd empty all of our float money to give customer change, and then ask for more change from the office. The only reason they didn't like doing this was because the manager had to count a nearly new open bag of coppers at the end of the night, so basically they were just lazy.
nickyboy
Norven Mankey
- Location
- You want hills? We got hills
On point on 2 this is not how the law works. If the buyer could reasonably assume that the price charged was an error (so it usually retails for £100 and the price paid was £10) the seller has the right to void the sale, return the £10 and recover the goods
There is loads of case law regarding internet pricing errors on this where TVs get sold for £1 and there is uproar when the seller refuses to despatch the goods. However, the seller has the law behind them on this. The seller can also recover the goods if it is a physical sale.
spen666
Legendary Member
This is down to the point at which the contract ismade.
If I offer you £1 for your car and you mistakenly accept that offer, and I pay the £1 over. The contract is complete and you cannot (normally) seek to rescind the contract.
In the example the previous poster gave, the contract had not been made because the seller did not accept the offer.
There however could be issues regarding offences of misleading pricing in that scenario.
The making of a contract is not the same as delivery of the goods
bikingdad90
Guru
It’s about 50/50 between linked till and card machines.
At the end of the day, the card machine can run a report of all the earnings it has taken and these should be cross balanced against the till report.
In theory if it’s not put through the till at all then it would be picked up instead as a stock discrepancy as earnings will be down but stock purchase levels remain the same instead of also going down, potentially picked up by the auditors. The use of CCTV would help identify the culprit.
It’s even sneakier to use a skimming machine to collect card details and then use the recorded data to make purchases as then the shop has no audit trail of wrong doing. It is hard to trace the skimming machine if it is removed from its position but then you’ve got to overcome the IP address issue and CCTV issues as any purchases leave a digital trail of some sort.
Basically, one way or another you will get caught!
nickyboy
Norven Mankey
- Location
- You want hills? We got hills
You might want the law to be like that, but it isn't. If you offer me £1 for my car (a clearly inappropriate price) and I mistakenly think this was £10,000 (a reasonable price) and accept, regardless of the fact that I accept the offer the contract is voidable by the vendor
Also the previous poster said this: "However, if they charge you £10 by accident and the sale goes through, they are not allowed to call you back and say you've not paid enough. That's their mistake and their loss."
This contract is also voidable by the vendor
There is loads of case law to support this
