Winchester's new 20mph limit 'not enforceable'

[Bollo]

Normally I wouldn't post raw urls, but in this case I think they add to the sense of irony.....

http://www.hampshirechronicle.co.uk...new_20mph_Winchester_city_centre_speed_limit/

http://www.hampshirechronicle.co.uk...speed_limit__not_legally_enforceable_/?ref=mr

I could write an essay, but *sigh*, Just *sigh*.

 

[mjr]

That seems like Hampshire isn't following ACPO's lead in http://allpartycycling.org/2013/03/06/acpo-clairfy-their-position-on-20mph-speed-limits/ doesn't it?

 

[Bollo]

There are wider planning and transport issues in Winchester where the city fathers do not cover themselves in glory. If you're interested, look up the ongoing Silverhill/bus station redevelopment debacle and the P&R land-grab. So I was slightly surprised when the 20mph happened, as City Council have specialised in complacency and timidity for many years now.

In cycling terms the limit is irrelevant on its own. Because the central city layout still follows its medieval plan, but with lots of cars added, it's gummed up with traffic at any time that matters. Add in the cruel one way system, significant inclines and road widths that both nip and tuck, the vortex around the city centre will still be horrid to ride with or without the new limit.

The limit might be of more benefit to pedestrians. Another side effect of maintaining full vehicular access in the city centre is that the space available for pedestrians is, in places, very limited. Winchester is the home of the single-lane pavement with passing places. A few years ago the City Council toyed with the idea of a trial shared space scheme around Jewry St. It would have been interesting, but they bottled it.

Now to the police. Hampshire plod is not the Met so, while Brazilian plumbers might feel a little safer, they're a little unreconstructed when it comes to road policing and cycling in particular. A few years ago on this forum I suggested that Hants Constabulary's responsibility to cyclists begins and ends with directing traffic around the bodies. I don't think much has changed since. It doesn't come as a complete surprise that they're less than enthusiastic about some politically correct 20mph speed limit. By happy coincidence, Hampshire plod's HQ lies about 100 yards away from the end of the 20mph zone along the Romsey Rd. They could at least point a hair dryer at passing motorists on their way to pick up their sandwiches.

Did the City Council consult with plod at any time during the planning process for the new speed limit? Did plod contact the CC to express their reservations before the signs when up?

 

[Butty1972]

It used to be the case (AFAIK) that a 20mph zone *had* to have traffic calming measures applied as well, speed bumps, traffic chicanes or at the very least the thick traffic calming paint stripes. This in a sense enforces the 20mph somewhat, particularly the speedbumps.

However, at some point the policy has changed, and traffic calming measures are no longer required, and as such, the entirety of the measure is to erect signs, which require the same level of enforcement as any other speed limit, ie, quite a lot if you want people to actually comply (hands up who has never broken a speed limit(not really rhetorical question)), as opposed to letting the speedbumps carry out compliance for you..

But of course, speedbumps are expensive, so........ let's just put up some signs.... and tell people we are making the roads safer. i think it's better than nothing, but not as good as a physical measure which is hard to ignore.

Of course, one counter-argument is that speedbumps also slow down ambulances and fire engines, and perhaps you'd like them to be able to break the speed limit occasionally.....

 

[Markymark]

Islington are giving it a try.

 

[mjr]

Speedbumps are also accused of causing noise pollution for nearby residents and "dynamic compression" to the road around it. Would anyone else here like to see average speed cameras scattered in 20mph zones?

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Police enforcement priorities are increasing set in accordance with community concerns expressed through liaison committees. If the locals want the limits enforced then as well as engaging with the commissioner they need to engage with the body that recommends the priorities.

 

[Bollo]

Police enforcement priorities are increasing set in accordance with community concerns expressed through liaison committees. If the locals want the limits enforced then as well as engaging with the commissioner they need to engage with the body that recommends the priorities.

This might be landing on his desk soon enough. I think most residents assumed that a speed limit is by definition enforced. Otherwise it's just a speed suggestion.

The other rubbish I wrote is really more about the whole concept of a 20mph limit. What the city centre needs isn't neccessarily slower cars, but fewer of the buggers. Winchester has a strong local economy and it's an attractive city to visit (ignoring the current and future Silverhill. And the traffic) but the council seems to believe the entire place will turn into Aleppo if there are any restrictions on the vehicular access. If it had the cajones and a bit of imagination, the council could be much bolder in how it manages traffic into the city centre. The 20pmh limit is just a sop.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

This might be landing on his desk soon enough. I think most residents assumed that a speed limit is by definition enforced. Otherwise it's just a speed suggestion.

The other rubbish I wrote is really more about the whole concept of a 20mph limit. What the city centre needs isn't neccessarily slower cars, but fewer of the buggers. Winchester has a strong local economy and it's an attractive city to visit (ignoring the current and future Silverhill. And the traffic) but the council seems to believe the entire place will turn into Aleppo if there are any restrictions on the vehicular access. If it had the cajones and a bit of imagination, the council could be much bolder in how it manages traffic into the city centre. The 20pmh limit is just a sop.

The priority, I feel, is to reduce the speed and volume of traffic in our towns. If we have 20mph limits, and these are observed, enforcement would be a part of encouraging observation, we take away most, if not all, of the speed advantage a car confers on its users in urban settings. If we then throttle back the availability of city-/town-centre parking for said vehicles, by removing car parks or increasing parking charges to deterrent levels for able-bodied users, then the volume is bound to fall. So I see 20mph not as a sop but a first step on the ladder.

Winchester is a town I know well. It has the potential to be a gorgeous place but instead it becomes a ghastly place in which to be a cyclist or a pedestrian, though I am one there regularly, during waking hours. Also a ghastly place to drive through or into.

 

[Bollo]

I don't disagree GG, I think our only difference is that I see no prospect of the City Council taking any of the required next steps. The council is pretty much permanently hung between the Tories and Lib Dems and that appears to make it timid, especially when the local business big-shots kick up a fuss. A year or two ago charging for Sunday parking was trialed and repealed sharpish. They've also recently been quite happy to roll over to pressure from the current Silverhill developers to drop plans for a dedicated bus station to replace the current depot (they've also 'done a Boris' with the affordable housing requirement, but that's another, all too common story). Not signs of a progressive transport policy.

http://www.hampshirechronicle.co.uk...ll/11525828.Setback_for_Silver_Hill_campaign/

The Hants Chronicle tends towards the reactionary, so this latest headline came as no surprise....

http://www.hampshirechronicle.co.uk...16._Waste_of_time__speed_limit_cost___90_000/

The article seems to point the finger at the city councillor championing the idea (as it turns out, my local councillor), but never asks the obvious question - why are the police choosing to ignore it? They haven't really provided any real explanation or justification for their position.

I'd recommend reading to the end. Tory councillor Robert Sanders last words on the matter are just shocking, but neatly summarises what we're up against.