Will my RD Work with the HG61 9 speed 12-36 Cassette?

[MacB]

On the new Burls I've got 40/24 up front and an 11-28 cassette but I'd like to forget the FD(thanks Rimas) and just run it as a 1x9 setup with the Shimano 12-36 cassette. The current RD is a Deore XT Rapid Rise 9 speed and says Mega Drive Train on the jockey wheel arm. But I don't know if it's long cage or if it will cope with a 36t cassette cog, and I can't find anything on the Shimano site.

I measured the jockey wheel arm/cage at 100mm from centre to centre on the jockey wheels, does anyone know if I'm ok to order the 12-36? If not then what RD do I need to order to go with that cassette?

 

[frank9755]

A long cage mech is needed for a triple, not for a cassette with big sprockets so that's not the issue.

However, how old is that mech? If it's a brand new one (ie the latest range not old stock sold as new) it will have been designed with 36T in mind and I would expect it would work no problem. If it's a bit older then it would have only been made to cope with 34T in mind so it may or may not work, depending on your bike geometry and how much extra there is in it.

It'll probably work - worth a try! If it doesn't then just get a new one of the latest model.

 

[MacB]

Ta Frank, I think I'll consult a bit with Spa before ordering as there's all sorts of guff peppering the web about has to be Shadow rear mech and has to be special shimano 29er hub. I think the latter isn't a concern as I opted for the steel freehub body on my Hope ProIIs, but will double check that as well.

Easiest is if I can do a straight cassette swap and put the 12-36 on, alternatively I can get an 11-34 and change the 40t for a 38t, the resulting gearing is almost identical and I know the 11-34 would work, plus I can get them cheaper. Either way works out about the same price as long as a new rear mech isn't required.

I may have an 11-28 cassette for sale with under 20 miles on the clock will I ever learn!!!

 

[frank9755]

Hang on to it - you might decide to change back next month...

 

[potsy]

Hang on to it - you might decide to change back next month...

Do you ever ride a bike Mac? Doubt you have time with all the tinkering you do

 

[MacB]

Do you ever ride a bike Mac? Doubt you have time with all the tinkering you do

Ha, for once 'I spit in your eye', have been doing 14 miles a day and did a second 14 this evening to give the Burls its first proper run. Trying to see if I'll be able to hack Thursdays night ride and whether I need to emergency fit a front derailler or if I can get away with 1x9. I'm not taking the 24t ring off so I can always manually change chainrings if things get really sticky. If I stay as is then my low gear, without manual intervention, will be about 38 inches. If I go 12-36, or 11-34 with a 38t, then the low will be 30 inches.

With the previous triple the lowest gear I had was 31 inches and the inner ring was only ever used on Ditchling or some silly hills in Sheffield. I lived in the 42t and that had a low of 43 inches. Maybe I just leave as is and, if 38 isn't a low enough low I have the manual front change option or I can always just push.

 

[MacB]

Well you got me thinking Potsy and, believe it or not, I hadn't actually done a comparative analysis of the 40 x 11-28 versus the old triple of 30/42/52 & 12-26.

It's actually quite surprising, obviously there are more gears on the triple but, in absolute terms, I don't lose much at all:-

top end - the 52 ring would have given me gears at 107 and 116 inches, I never actually used them though....EVER, the next gear(52x14) it gave is pretty much the same as 40x11
bottom end - the 30 ring gave me gears at 35 and 31 and the next gear(30x21) is the same as 40x28

Food for thought, I think I'll stay as is and just rely on a manual front change if desperation comes calling.

 

[potsy]

Ha, for once 'I spit in your eye', have been doing 14 miles a day and did a second 14 this evening to give the Burls its first proper run. Trying to see if I'll be able to hack Thursdays night ride

What is the ride you are doing?
Do you know the climbing involved?

Everybody has their own way of getting up the hills, me I need low gears and a steely determination to just keep going, others like to get out the saddle and grind.
Best thing I did was lower my gearing a touch, 28x26 on 700x23 tyres, under 30 inch gear I think, though at times on some of the recent forum rides I could've done with them being even lower
I guess once I'm fitter/lighter I won't need the extreme low gear but at least for now it keeps me from walking up all but the very steep hills.

 

[MacB]

What is the ride you are doing?
Do you know the climbing involved?

Hopefully the night ride from London to Hastings on Thursday so about 72 miles and 1600m of climbing. I'm actually strong enough(I think) though the stamina could be a bit suspect, it's the extra weight I'm carrying that'll make it tougher. But the hills are more sort of long draggy rather than viciously steep and I have a little gizmo that will allow me to move the chain to the 24t inner, and vice versa, if need be...possibly even on the move Though I realise that may be pushing my limited skills and dexterity too far.

If I did go with the 12-36 then I lose a 97.1 and 82.1 inch gear and gain a 33.4 and 29.7, the other 7 remain exactly as they are.

 

[frank9755]

[QUOTE 1376218"]
No it's not, a long cage mech is needed for both.

A medium cage you can use with a triple. However if the largest sprocket on the block is <28 teeth or there abouts and you want to run a triple then you'll do better with a long cage.

I have a triple with 23-11 and it works just fine with a medium cage.

[/quote]

As long as it works, that's the main thing!

There's always more tolerance in the kit than Shimano states.

 

[frank9755]

Ha, for once 'I spit in your eye', have been doing 14 miles a day and did a second 14 this evening to give the Burls its first proper run. Trying to see if I'll be able to hack Thursdays night ride and whether I need to emergency fit a front derailler or if I can get away with 1x9. I'm not taking the 24t ring off so I can always manually change chainrings if things get really sticky. If I stay as is then my low gear, without manual intervention, will be about 38 inches. If I go 12-36, or 11-34 with a 38t, then the low will be 30 inches.

With the previous triple the lowest gear I had was 31 inches and the inner ring was only ever used on Ditchling or some silly hills in Sheffield. I lived in the 42t and that had a low of 43 inches. Maybe I just leave as is and, if 38 isn't a low enough low I have the manual front change option or I can always just push.

You push some big gears (for a non-racer)! Whatever works for you, I guess. Rimas can get away with just a single chainring as his power to weight ratio is enormous but I wouldn't try it for the Downs. But good luck with it!

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

To answer your original question, you can find out yourself with nothing more than a ruler - the 36T sprocket will be 1.62cm closer to the upper jockey wheel than the 28T.

Whether there is adequate clearance for it not only depends on the rear mech spec, but also the frame/hanger geometry, the size of the upper jockey wheel (one can potentially cheat a little here by using a replacement with fewer teeth) and the B screw setting (which you can play with).

 

[MacB]

To answer your original question, you can find out yourself with nothing more than a ruler - the 36T sprocket will be 1.62cm closer to the upper jockey wheel than the 28T.

Whether there is adequate clearance for it not only depends on the rear mech spec, but also the frame/hanger geometry, the size of the upper jockey wheel (one can potentially cheat a little here by using a replacement with fewer teeth) and the B screw setting (which you can play with).

Ta, I checked and looks like it would work and Harris cyclery also suggest that a workaround of a longer B screw can do the trick as well.

But I've taken the easier option and stuck a front derailler on, the barend shifter was already in place just needed a cable inner threading through. So I now have a low gear of 23 inches and if that isn't enough then I'm screwed anyway

I figured a quid for a cable inner at the LBS made more sense than spending £30 plus and I also had further ideas during my searches online last night. Hadn't really noticed the SRAM Apex groupset before and they offer 10 speed 11-32 and 12-32 cassettes. I always intended trying some integrated brake/shift units on this bike but the choice wasn't great if I stuck with 9 speed.

This does throw up a further question though - could I run the Apex cassette, front and rear deraillers and shifters with my existing chainset? I'd probably change the rings but, assuming I got chainline right for the Apex FD, could I just lower the FD and run with say a 46/30, they do offer 34/48 and 34/50 chainsets? Do 10 speed chains work ok on 9 speed chainrings or are there problems?

This goes to pricing, I could buy the whole Apex groupset and fit it all or I could buy the bits I need but cheapest would be to buy the groupset and then sell the brakes, bottom bracket and chainset. Though I may see all the shiny new stuff and just crumble and fit it, barring the brakes obviously.

One thing that put me off 10 speed was the chains and the powerlinks not being reuseable but I've seen comments indicating you can now get repeat use powerlinks for them, is this right?

 

[Zoiders]

If you do opt for the single front ring the issue will be chain retention.

Even with just a single ring a front mech high enough set to stop it dropping is an idea or a simple plastic sharks tooth device on the seat tube.

 

[frank9755]

Ta, I checked and looks like it would work and Harris cyclery also suggest that a workaround of a longer B screw can do the trick as well.

But I've taken the easier option and stuck a front derailler on, the barend shifter was already in place just needed a cable inner threading through. So I now have a low gear of 23 inches and if that isn't enough then I'm screwed anyway

I figured a quid for a cable inner at the LBS made more sense than spending £30 plus and I also had further ideas during my searches online last night. Hadn't really noticed the SRAM Apex groupset before and they offer 10 speed 11-32 and 12-32 cassettes. I always intended trying some integrated brake/shift units on this bike but the choice wasn't great if I stuck with 9 speed.

This does throw up a further question though - could I run the Apex cassette, front and rear deraillers and shifters with my existing chainset? I'd probably change the rings but, assuming I got chainline right for the Apex FD, could I just lower the FD and run with say a 46/30, they do offer 34/48 and 34/50 chainsets? Do 10 speed chains work ok on 9 speed chainrings or are there problems?

This goes to pricing, I could buy the whole Apex groupset and fit it all or I could buy the bits I need but cheapest would be to buy the groupset and then sell the brakes, bottom bracket and chainset. Though I may see all the shiny new stuff and just crumble and fit it, barring the brakes obviously.

One thing that put me off 10 speed was the chains and the powerlinks not being reuseable but I've seen comments indicating you can now get repeat use powerlinks for them, is this right?

I know nothing about the pitch needed for SRAM but:
- A 10-speed chain on 9-speed chainset will be fine.
- KMC do reuseable 10-speed powerlinks.

However, if you're not racing, I can't see any benefit from switching to 10-speed. Lots of work for little (if any) benefit.

Why did you go for bar end levers as opposed to the more obvious option of 9-speed Tiagra STIs...?