When even Primary Position isn't enough

[Sh4rkyBloke]

Cycling home on Wednesday, minding my own business, enjoying the fresh air and quietish roads....

I approach the first mini-roundabout of two that are quite close together, I pass the first (having had to brake for a car entering the roundabout from my right) and am heading for the second one... I'm holding a strong Primary position as it's quite narrow and I want to be seen by any traffic entering the next roundabout (and also block anyone from attempting an overtake) when this happens.

Suggestions please as to how/if this could have been avoided (apart from the obvious ones of removing the driver from the gene pool) .

It gets a bit tiring when you do (I think) all you can to deter them.. but they insist on doing it anyway.

 

[MacB]

looking at the video I'm not sure how much he's done wrong, I don't think I'd have been surprised, or perturbed, by that move.

 

[thomas]

On the upside the driver didn't try to go around the roundabout properly. It says in your video he pulls towards you, but it doesn't look that bad.

A similar type of WVM overtook me but because there were stopped cars he pulled back in, into me....I wouldn't have minded if he was going to turn right at the lights. Shame the video's corrupted.

 

[Sh4rkyBloke]

looking at the video I'm not sure how much he's done wrong, I don't think I'd have been surprised, or perturbed, by that move.

Apart from overtaking on the cross hatching/chevrons.. and over a roundabout (both illegal, IIRC) I suppose it was all fine.

Can't say I was surprised other than with the attempt taking place whilst I was in the centre of the lane and moving at about the same speed... completely pointless, and potentially dangerous.

 

[Sh4rkyBloke]

On the upside the driver didn't try to go around the roundabout properly. It says in your video he pulls towards you, but it doesn't look that bad.

The text is not ideally placed, he moves slightly towards me when he goes over the roundabout (just before and during the time the text is overlaid saying about him moving towards me)... nothing too vindictive or vicious, just plain stupid and careless driving. His passenger was looking in the wing mirror throughout, so he knew I was there... and his hand gesture out of his window confirmed to me that he knew he had done wrong... classic "blame the other person for my own stupid move" action.

I *could* have eased off and let him pass more easily... but don't see why I should have to. Plenty of room to escape if the brown stuff hits the fan, so not really concerned... just another muppet on the road.

 

[Sh4rkyBloke]

As for being potentially dangerous....just be thankful that a MV didn't turn right at the second roundabout (approaching from your left). That could have been interesting.....

That's pretty much the reason for the Primary position as it makes me more visible to them coming from the left (which is where they mostly arrive from), and also gives me a millisecond or two extra to brake if I see they are not stopping... which has been known (I know, shocker!)

 

[MacB]

That's pretty much the reason for the Primary position as it makes me more visible to them coming from the left (which is where they mostly arrive from), and also gives me a millisecond or two extra to brake if I see they are not stopping... which has been known (I know, shocker!)

certainly no arguements with your reasons for primary, exactly what I'd do in the same scenario. Kind of figure that the ones behind me will generally see me and, if they are going to ram into the back of me, then it'll happen regardless. Like you I worry about the ones from the side, every side road on my commute is imprinted in my mind and my awareness/position adjust accordingly as I approach them. Still won't save me from a complete numpty but I've certainly had plenty rethink pulling out due to my positioning.

I also don't disagree with you re the legalities of what the van does. But the video seemed to show a clear road, good visibility and no danger to yourself. Obviously I can't see the whole picture from the video was just commenting on what I could see.

 

[mr_cellophane]

Nothing wrong with him passing you under the bridge

130


Areas of white diagonal stripes or chevrons painted on the road. These are to separate traffic lanes or to protect traffic turning right.

• if the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so
• if the area is marked with chevrons and bordered by solid white lines you MUST NOT enter it except in an emergency
  

[Laws MT(E&W)R regs 5, 9, 10 & 16, MT(S)R regs 4, 8, 9 & 14, RTA sect 36 & TSRGD 10(1)]

 

[Sh4rkyBloke]

Nothing wrong with him passing you under the bridge

I'm assuming you're being sarcastic.

If not then hasn't just what you quoted there proved the point against him? (i.e. if the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so - I wouldn't deem it "necessary" to overtake there, and as for it being safe.. well, I suppose it is despite the fact that we're approaching a mini-roundabout with 2 places that traffic can join it!!)

When he leaves the second mini-roundabout he's only a couple of metres ahead of me... would it really slow him down all that much to just wait the extra half a second required until we get onto the exit road leading away from the roundabout?

 

[magnatom]

He certainly shouldn't have been overtaking you approaching the second roundabout. There wasn't enough space to complete the manouver safely.

I must admit though, an incident like that wouldn't make it on youtube if it happened to me, nowadays. A roll of the eyes, certainly.

The only thing you could do here to prevent it in the future, is the palm to driver signal, i.e put your right hand out with palm facing the driver. Sometimes they pull back as they understand the meaning. Sometimes they pull back as they get confused. Either way it does sometimes work.

 

[mr_cellophane]

I'm assuming you're being sarcastic.

If not then hasn't just what you quoted there proved the point against him? (i.e. if the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so - I wouldn't deem it "necessary" to overtake there, and as for it being safe.. well, I suppose it is despite the fact that we're approaching a mini-roundabout with 2 places that traffic can join it!!)

When he leaves the second mini-roundabout he's only a couple of metres ahead of me... would it really slow him down all that much to just wait the extra half a second required until we get onto the exit road leading away from the roundabout?

I wasn't. Point is everyone was saying that you can't cross into a hatched area. That is not true. The first main road from my house has a 2 ft wide hatched area down the centre. Fortunately most people move into it instead of squeezing past me.

 

[Garz]

Nice vid sharky, like the editing. On topic, yep white van muppet!

 

[Sh4rkyBloke]

I wasn't. Point is everyone was saying that you can't cross into a hatched area. That is not true. The first main road from my house has a 2 ft wide hatched area down the centre. Fortunately most people move into it instead of squeezing past me.

And that's where it's a necessity, as the road just isn't wide enough to pass safely... however, passing someone just prior to a mini-roundabout when they're doing pretty much the same speed as you (and therefore you're not likely to complete the overtake in the space at hand) is not a necessity, it's just moronic driving.

Mags, I hear what you're saying about the incident not making it onto YouTube... but I'm just starting out in my quest to illustrate the idiots, I've some catching up to do with your little video shrine.

About the hand out, palm facing them signal... I have used that in the past, but it's more for when I feel very intimidated and/or in danger (i.e. approaching a pinch point when someone tries to get past)... this was just more of an annoyance (and a nicely coreopraphed incident for my collection, obviously).

 

[Origamist]

The only thing you could do here to prevent it in the future, is the palm to driver signal, i.e put your right hand out with palm facing the driver. Sometimes they pull back as they understand the meaning. Sometimes they pull back as they get confused. Either way it does sometimes work.

The problem with any hand gesture that is not widely understood is that it will be misinterpreted. Confusion is one response, but sadly a quite a few people consider it unwelcome or even inflammatory.