Wheely confused

[Cuchilo]

Ive been looking at deep section carbon wheels in shops and on other peoples bikes and I have noticed that some seem to have the spoke nipples at the point of contact with the rim and others seem to go through the rim so the deep section is actually a fairing .
I'm unsure if this is a good or bad thing ? My gut feeling is it isn't ideal but then I guess it saves on weight ?
Anyone care to clue me up ?

 

[Spoked Wheels]

Jason,
Deep carbon rims take nipples inside the deep section. A long nipple driver is needed. That works fine but not a lot you can do without taking the tyre off.

 

[Spoked Wheels]

Ive been looking at deep section carbon wheels in shops and on other peoples bikes and I have noticed that some seem to have the spoke nipples at the point of contact with the rim and others seem to go through the rim so the deep section is actually a fairing .
I'm unsure if this is a good or bad thing ? My gut feeling is it isn't ideal but then I guess it saves on weight ?
Anyone care to clue me up ?

And what happened to your wheels ?

 

[Yellow Saddle]

Ive been looking at deep section carbon wheels in shops and on other peoples bikes and I have noticed that some seem to have the spoke nipples at the point of contact with the rim and others seem to go through the rim so the deep section is actually a fairing .
I'm unsure if this is a good or bad thing ? My gut feeling is it isn't ideal but then I guess it saves on weight ?
Anyone care to clue me up ?

Your observation is correct. Wheels with fairings usually offer the benefit of an actual aluminium rim inside, with alu brake surfaces, The fairing is a nice way around some difficult problems with manufacturing carbon rims. It is extremely difficult to get them round and the material of equal thickness everywhere. A really bad rim shows up when building by producing some spokes that are way tighter than others, often to the point where you cannot tighten the tight ones anymore, yet the slack ones haven't got enough tension yet.

Aluminium is easier to extrude reasonably accurately. Therefore the fairing wheels have the benefit of a good alu rim and a lightweight fairing. They do tend to be noisy though.

 

[Cuchilo]

Jason,
Deep carbon rims take nipples inside the deep section. A long nipple driver is needed. That works fine but not a lot you can do without taking the tyre off.

These ones don't .... http://www.zipp.com/wheels/808-firecrest---carbon-clincher/#

 

[Cuchilo]

And what happened to your wheels ?

I have the 50mm Giants on the TCR and the 40mm on the TT bike . Just seen some deeper section wheels for the tt bike and I like wheels ALOT . Would prefer to have you make them though . When are you going into carbon ?

Your observation is correct. Wheels with fairings usually offer the benefit of an actual aluminium rim inside, with alu brake surfaces, The fairing is a nice way around some difficult problems with manufacturing carbon rims. It is extremely difficult to get them round and the material of equal thickness everywhere. A really bad rim shows up when building by producing some spokes that are way tighter than others, often to the point where you cannot tighten the tight ones anymore, yet the slack ones haven't got enough tension yet.

Aluminium is easier to extrude reasonably accurately. Therefore the fairing wheels have the benefit of a good alu rim and a lightweight fairing. They do tend to be noisy though.

I noticed the giant P-SLR1's are now fairings . Zipp seem to be sticking with solid carbon .
Is there any benefit to the consumer regarding fairings and not ? Its still my gut feeling that a fairing is a bit of a cop out by the manufacturer but I don't know why I think that

 

[Citius]

Ive been looking at deep section carbon wheels in shops and on other peoples bikes and I have noticed that some seem to have the spoke nipples at the point of contact with the rim and others seem to go through the rim so the deep section is actually a fairing .
I'm unsure if this is a good or bad thing ? My gut feeling is it isn't ideal but then I guess it saves on weight ?
Anyone care to clue me up ?

Not necessarily a fairing - some just use internal spoke nipples rather than external (which is effectively just an external nipple fitted in reverse). The only downside, as mentioned, is that truing usually needs the tyre removed.

 

[Cuchilo]

Not necessarily a fairing - some just use internal spoke nipples rather than external (which is effectively just an external nipple fitted in reverse). The only downside, as mentioned, is that truing usually needs the tyre removed.

The ones I have seen have been an obvious fairing with the spoke going through a larger hole . It doesn't help when looking as people tend to stick fake decals on the wheels

 

[Yellow Saddle]

I have the 50mm Giants on the TCR and the 40mm on the TT bike . Just seen some deeper section wheels for the tt bike and I like wheels ALOT . Would prefer to have you make them though . When are you going into carbon ?


I noticed the giant P-SLR1's are now fairings . Zipp seem to be sticking with solid carbon .
Is there any benefit to the consumer regarding fairings and not ? Its still my gut feeling that a fairing is a bit of a cop out by the manufacturer but I don't know why I think that

Well, as I said, the benefit is an aluminium braking surface, homogenous rims with more even spoke tension and relatively light weight. I would imagine they cost less to make too but then I don't price these things. Another advantage I can think of is that the nipples never fall inside. Once you have a lightweight aluminium nipple inside a Zipp wheel you are doomed. It can take hours to remove it. I mean hours. With an aluminium rim the nipple is confined to its socket and can go nowhere.

Zipp rims BTW are far from solid. The tyre seat area is pretty solid and the spoke hoop is a solid, triangular piece of carbon sheeting in a U-shape filled with resin. The cavity is theoretically empty but actually full of burst plastic bladder, strings of carbon encrusted with resin and other debris.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

Here's a photo of a cross section of a Mavic Cosmic. The fairing can be seen clearly. It is glued to the aluminium rim and like you say, the fairing has big holes for the spoke. These large holes are like that so that the spoke doesn't touch the fairing and rattle or vibrate.

 

[Cuchilo]

Thanks . Solid carbon was probably the wrong phrase to use but I think we all know they are not a solid lump of glue and mesh
So
The pro's
lighter
repairable
cheaper
You can stop when you hit the brakes

The cons
looks like you cant afford real wheels
Water traps
noisey

So I only have two real cons I can think of and they are not a big deal .
Hmmmmmm

 

[Spoked Wheels]

I have the 50mm Giants on the TCR and the 40mm on the TT bike . Just seen some deeper section wheels for the tt bike and I like wheels ALOT . Would prefer to have you make them though . When are you going into carbon ?

Jason, I remember looking into building very light carbon wheels, after we met and I came to the conclusion that I would never be able to build something as light with off the shelf components as you can from Zipp for instance.. I have read that some wheelbuilders can build pretty light wheels, not as light as you wanted though but in order to achieve the weight you have to compromise and accept that reliability might be a problem, there are some very light hubs but they are expensive and the bearings have a short life,

 

[Yellow Saddle]

Thanks . Solid carbon was probably the wrong phrase to use but I think we all know they are not a solid lump of glue and mesh
So
The pro's
lighter
repairable
cheaper
You can stop when you hit the brakes

The cons
looks like you cant afford real wheels
Water traps
noisey

So I only have two real cons I can think of and they are not a big deal .
Hmmmmmm

I never thought of the water, because I've never used such wheels but I doubt the water will trap. I think there is a little drain hole or two next to the alu. I won't worry about that. Further, Mavic Cosmics for instance are very expensive. Just put big yellow stickers on yours and people will think they are expensive.

Nothing wrong with them really.

 

[Cuchilo]

Oooooops .
I think ive just bought some new wheels

 

[Cuchilo]

I could have sworn they where fairings last time I looked at them but I have been looking at a lot of wheels
Had another look today and .....