Wheel truing and building

[RhythMick]

I think I fancy having a go at wheelbuilding. I've bought the Musson pdf online and had a read, also looked through a few other sites. I'd like to have a go primarily because I think it would be interesting, but also to demystify yet another part of the bike (on my long journey) and improve my chances of looking after my own better.

First port of call... Cheap old wheel (knackered freewheel) that I can take apart and put back together for fun and at almost no cost. Maybe a few spare nipples.

Any other tips?

 

[Spoked Wheels]

Yeah, go for it. Roger Musson is a very good tutorial and once you are comfortable building wheels then you can read other things that will give you a good understanding of the relationships between wheel stiffness and spoke tension, spoke count, bracing angle, spoke thickness, lacing patters, etc. It's interesting to understand these concepts but ultimately it boils down to avoid certain combination of components.

Tips: start with a new rim. Don't bother with rusty spokes, I nearly lost an eye with a rusty spoke ( my fault). Take your time and try to go for perfection from the start. You will never get a perfect wheel, nobody does but high standards pay off when building wheels. Small steps, you will know when you can take bigger steps. Don't be afraid to undo what you have done and start again.

You will soon discover whether you can build wheels or not. If you can then at some point you will surprise yourself that with some practice you will be able to build excellent wheels in some cases much better wheels than what some PRO make (no time constrains is the key while you are still relatively new)

Just read what you said about a cheap wheel and knackered freewheel - that can make the job very hard, trying to get your truing right can be very hard and frustrate you. Not a good idea in my view but it's your choice.

 

[RhythMick]

Ok thanks for that. I was planning to take the old wheel apart and put it back together, just to get my head around all the parts and how they fit together - but on stuff that doesn't matter. I've no intention of trying to get that back up and running - it's already junk.

Once I have a feel for the mechanics I'll think about what to build in the first instance. Advice would be good here. What hub/rim/spoke combination.

My main requirements are durability, longevity, maintainability. I commute 2 or 3 times a week (30 miles round trip) and tend to do a 50 to 100 mile at the weekends. So yeah if I can keep it reasonably light all to the good, but actually I'd like hubs which are easy to keep in good order, change or regrease bearings. I'm a 220lbs rider and tend to ride 35mm tyres (Schwalbe Marathon+).

 

[accountantpete]

Keep your eyes and ears open for a Park truing stand - they are very expensive but do make the job a lot easier.

There are cheaper alternatives or you can make your own out of old forks.

Also get a good spoke key (not a multi size one) for each size nipple you use and don't rush the tightening - otherwise you get rounded nipples.

 

[RhythMick]

Keep your eyes and ears open for a Park truing stand - they are very expensive but do make the job a lot easier.

There are cheaper alternatives or you can make your own out of old forks.

Also get a good spoke key (not a multi size one) for each size nipple you use and don't rush the tightening - otherwise you get rounded nipples.

Thanks. Ordered the red Spoken plus the Park Tools 3-size jobby. My multi tool (Crank Bros) has 4 spoke keys on there in an ingenious design. They helped me get my kids wheel rideable after a crash, but I suspect the proper jobs will be a lot better.

 

[Spoked Wheels]

Ok thanks for that. I was planning to take the old wheel apart and put it back together, just to get my head around all the parts and how they fit together - but on stuff that doesn't matter. I've no intention of trying to get that back up and running - it's already junk.

Once I have a feel for the mechanics I'll think about what to build in the first instance. Advice would be good here. What hub/rim/spoke combination.

My main requirements are durability, longevity, maintainability. I commute 2 or 3 times a week (30 miles round trip) and tend to do a 50 to 100 mile at the weekends. So yeah if I can keep it reasonably light all to the good, but actually I'd like hubs which are easy to keep in good order, change or regrease bearings. I'm a 220lbs rider and tend to ride 35mm tyres (Schwalbe Marathon+).

You can use an old wheel to practice the lacing, there's no harm in that. When it comes to truing then that is a different matter. Well, try to imagine a wheel with both ends of the axle fixed to a truing stand then if the freewheel is damaged you probably will have more play as the wheel turns than you need to true the wheel.

The first set I built for me was a set of Ambrosio Evolution with Shimano 105 hubs, 32 spokes front and rear wheels. I think that was about £120 the lot. Strong wheels for a commuter or winter wheels. Shimano makes the strongest hubs. I built a couple of Mavic Open Pro / Shimano 105 for friends and those are lighter wheels but still strong enough for commuting and training To get the radial truing right takes a bit extra work I find, doable but it requires a bit extra work, at least that is my experience. Those were about between £170 - £180 I think.

You can certainly build something cheaper than that as a first set. Shimano makes cheaper hubs but still tough for commuting.

The spokey is very good, I have others but the spokey is my fav. You will need a dishing tool. You can make one like Roger M says in his book but to be honest that part of the advise is nonsense. For the sake of £20 quids is not worth the bother I think. A tensionmeter is a very good idea although I tend to trust my ears more and more these days but I do use it to make sure I don't over do the tension. When you are near the final tension then set one spoke at the tension you want and tension the rest of spokes on the same side to that spoke by tone. Well, it's not as simple as that but I guess you will understand what I mean when you are doing it.

 

[RhythMick]

Thanks for the advice. As you say there's no rush and that's in my favour.

 

[RhythMick]

Oh... Where's a good place to buy components. I looked at Shimano 105 yesterday but they were almost £200 the pair!

 

[Spoked Wheels]

Oh... Where's a good place to buy components. I looked at Shimano 105 yesterday but they were almost £200 the pair!

That can't be right. I bought mine for £47 from Ribble. No idea what they are charging now though. Buying as a set was cheaper but you might not like having both wheels with the same amount of spokes.

 

[Shut Up Legs]

RhythMick: do you have a URL for the Musson tutorial? I'm also planning to try wheel building for the 1st time . By the way, there's another wheel building tutorial right here on these fora, thanks to Mickle:
http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/mickles-tip-of-the-season-to-be-jolly-wheel-truing.91352/

 

[RhythMick]

RhythMick: do you have a URL for the Musson tutorial? I'm also planning to try wheel building for the 1st time . By the way, there's another wheel building tutorial right here on these fora, thanks to Mickle:
http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/mickles-tip-of-the-season-to-be-jolly-wheel-truing.91352/

Thanks for that. Google "wheelpro" or "Musson pdf" and you're sure to find it. £5 well spent.

 

[Spoked Wheels]

RhythMick: do you have a URL for the Musson tutorial? I'm also planning to try wheel building for the 1st time . By the way, there's another wheel building tutorial right here on these fora, thanks to Mickle:
http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/mickles-tip-of-the-season-to-be-jolly-wheel-truing.91352/

I had no seen the tutorial before so I had a quick read and I got as far as "(1) GENERAL SPOKE TENSION
You can expect to have some variation in spoke tension, possibly with one or two spokes quite loose. This is sometimes due to poor tolerances at the manufacturing stage and/or subsequent damage to the rim. You may even discover a broken or missing spoke. Since you want to achieve trueness in the rim, having all spokes at the same tension is less important. I have worked on wheels that could have up to three spokes completely removed without affecting trueness."

The statement I highlighted in bold is a lot of nonsense, I never heard or read such recommendation before and it does not make sense to me.

If you have one spoke very under tension then radial load will result in neighbouring spokes taking more of their share of the load which in time will result in spokes going slack and some spokes even suffering fatigue failure. With a high spoke count wheel you might remove a few spokes as the guy says and the trueness would not be affected, that is true enough but that doesn't mean the integrity of the wheel will not be affected before long. You can even achieve a wheel to be true with spoke tension all over the place but that doesn't mean that the wheel will be strong and reliable, on the contrary, that wheel would loose trueness very quickly and be quite troublesome until then spoke tension is sorted out..

Slack spokes make weak wheels. Correctly and evenly tensioned spokes make strong and reliable wheels.

 

[RhythMick]

I had no seen the tutorial before so I had a quick read and I got as far as "(1) GENERAL SPOKE TENSION
You can expect to have some variation in spoke tension, possibly with one or two spokes quite loose. This is sometimes due to poor tolerances at the manufacturing stage and/or subsequent damage to the rim. You may even discover a broken or missing spoke. Since you want to achieve trueness in the rim, having all spokes at the same tension is less important. I have worked on wheels that could have up to three spokes completely removed without affecting trueness."

The statement I highlighted in bold is a lot of nonsense, I never heard or read such recommendation before and it does not make sense to me.

If you have one spoke very under tension then radial load will result in neighbouring spokes taking more of their share of the load which in time will result in spokes going slack and some spokes even suffering fatigue failure. With a high spoke count wheel you might remove a few spokes as the guy says and the trueness would not be affected, that is true enough but that doesn't mean the integrity of the wheel will not be affected before long. You can even achieve a wheel to be true with spoke tension all over the place but that doesn't mean that the wheel will be strong and reliable, on the contrary, that wheel would loose trueness very quickly and be quite troublesome until then spoke tension is sorted out..

Slack spokes make weak wheels. Correctly and evenly tensioned spokes make strong and reliable wheels.

Thanks. Though im a newbie that makes sense.