Weinmann 730 brake calipers

[DCBassman]

I know these are pretty basic, but how good at stopping you should they be?
They're doing long-drop duty at the moment, although still a way off the limit, so it shouldn't weaken whatever performance they have too much, I'm thinking?
Koolstop Salmon Classics on Shimano R500 rims. The front has bedded in fairly well, but the rear is just barely doing anything at all. After today's ride, I dismounted the brake, cleaned it, lubricated it, then degreased the blocks with IPA, as well as giving the rims yet another going over. The next ride will hopefully be better.
If not, looks like I'll be saving for some nutted long-drop dual pivots...

 

[DCBassman]

Another thought: these rims are skinny compared to what the bike had originally. Maybe I'm simply asking too much of the calipers?

 

[Illaveago]

I know these are pretty basic, but how good at stopping you should they be?
They're doing long-drop duty at the moment, although still a way off the limit, so it shouldn't weaken whatever performance they have too much, I'm thinking?
Koolstop Salmon Classics on Shimano R500 rims. The front has bedded in fairly well, but the rear is just barely doing anything at all. After today's ride, I dismounted the brake, cleaned it, lubricated it, then degreased the blocks with IPA, as well as giving the rims yet another going over. The next ride will hopefully be better.
If not, looks like I'll be saving for some nutted long-drop dual pivots...

If it is the same as your front brake then I would have expected the same performance . The rear brake won't need so much stopping power but it is usually up to the rider how much you use and not the equipment . It sounds as though sufficient pressure isn't getting to where it should do . Is it locking the rear wheel when applied ? Grease or wax on the rim? Stiff cable routing ? You need to isolate the problem ? Swapping the brake blocks from front to rear might rule one thing out . You could put the front brake on the rear with some spacers to narrow down the fault . If it works better it would point to the rear caliper being at fault . If it is the same then it would point to cable or rim .

 

[Drago]

They were never brilliant (by modern standards), although streets ahead of pressed steel calipers that graced many cheaper machines.

Conversely, their centrepulls were excellent and even by todays measure can provide very decent rim braking.

 

[T4tomo]

They were never brilliant (by modern standards), although streets ahead of pressed steel calipers that graced many cheaper machines.

Conversely, their centrepulls were excellent and even by todays measure can provide very decent rim braking.

I have some Weinmann canti's on one of my fleet, which do a v good job with Koolstop salmons (& alloy rims)

 

[figbat]

I replaced the Weinmann side-pull caliper with a cheap Dia-Compe dual-pivot caliper on the front of my Dawes Kingpin - the difference was remarkable, even on the same chromed-steel rim with the same brake blocks. The Weinmann is now replacing the pressed steel unit on an Elswick-Hopper 20" shopper, which is better but not by the same margin.

I also found that replacing the brake lever made a big difference too - I had a pair of cantilever levers on an old MTB that now grace the Dawes; along with the dual-pivot and an alloy rim that thing will damn-near stoppie now - I fear for the headset!

 

[midlife]

When braking, with all the weight being transferred forward even my puny Weinmann 500's could have a stab at locking the rear wheel. As above, what brake levers are you using?

 

[Illaveago]

Weinmann's are a bit soft and can flex quite easily . I fitted a pair of Campag ones on my Record Ace and they work very well .

 

[GuyBoden]

Weinmann's are a bit soft and can flex quite easily . I fitted a pair of Campag ones on my Record Ace and they work very well .

Personally, I think that the centre pull Weinmann 750's are good enough for braking, they also have the extra drop to allow a 700c wheel to replace the older 27inch. Yes, hopefully more modern brakes have improved in performance.

 

[Once a Wheeler]

I used these for a number of years, including touring and time-trialling. I would describe them as adequate but never as good as the Mafac centrepulls of the same vintage. Once dual-pivot sidepull brakes were invented, I never looked at the Weinmanns again. On club runs they tended to under-brake on gentle application and then suddenly switch unnervingly to over-braking as lever-pressure increased. If you are restoring or maintaining a 60s bike and want to keep the machine in period I would suggest using Beborex brakes if you can find them:

These were never widely popular but that articulated stirrup went some way to increasing control. You could regard them as a precursor of dual-pivot brakes. http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.aspx?ID=7c4c9909-02d7-47c4-ac60-b8c73594d1f3&Enum=117
The reason I never liked centrepulls was an aversion to the clobber of the added cable stops and their extra weight.

They all work; but some work better than others!

 

[DCBassman]

When braking, with all the weight being transferred forward even my puny Weinmann 500's could have a stab at locking the rear wheel. As above, what brake levers are you using?

The levers in use are Shimano ST-EF65-9 combis, set for 'other than V-brakes'. Big 4-finger levers.
I'm thinking that it's mostly down to the caliper itself, seeing as the front is ok. Most of the proffered solutions cannot work, unfortunately, due to needing the cable to pull from below.

 

[Deleted member 1258]

The levers in use are Shimano ST-EF65-9 combis, set for 'other than V-brakes'. Big 4-finger levers.
I'm thinking that it's mostly down to the caliper itself, seeing as the front is ok. Most of the proffered solutions cannot work, unfortunately, due to needing the cable to pull from below.

What are your outer cables like? I they're a bit spongy that might affect the brake performance. Back in the 1980's one of the things we would do to try and improve the brakes was fit a heavier duty outer cable, one of the local LBS's had a drum of moped cable he would sell by the yard.

 

[Gunk]

Conversely, their centrepulls were excellent and even by todays measure can provide very decent rim braking.

A decent of refurbished 999’s with modern MTB pads are as good as a modern dual pivot set up.

 

[Drago]

A decent of refurbished 999’s with modern MTB pads are as good as a modern dual pivot set up.

Indeed. I run them on my Claud Butler, paired with modern (but tasteful) Tektro levers and they provide first class retardation ability.

 

[DCBassman]

What are your outer cables like? I they're a bit spongy that might affect the brake performance. Back in the 1980's one of the things we would do to try and improve the brakes was fit a heavier duty outer cable, one of the local LBS's had a drum of moped cable he would sell by the yard.

Outers are all new. No idea if compressionless cable would work with these. An additional minor complication is that the cable stops are too small to take today's standard cable ferrules. That might be adding to the problem.