Water "softeners " recommendations

[Tenkaykev]

We're having a kitchen refurb next month and have been thinking about some form of water treatment. We live in a very hard water area ( Wessex Water - Poole ) We regularly descale our kettle / coffee machine / shower head etc using citric acid / vinegar. As the old kitchen is being ripped out we have a blank slate, although there are some space restrictions due to the dishwasher and washing machine placement. I have read that the salt regeneration type are the only ones that truly remove the calcium etc but that there's some concern about the saline discharge back into the waste water system. I've also seen the " Polyphos " systems which uses minute amounts of polyphosphate to keep the calcium in suspension. I can vaguely remember them from many years ago when I was working. I think I've also seen reference to an inline filter system but I don't know if that has any scientific basis.
I'd be grateful to hear anyone's real world experience of the various systems.

 

[mistyoptic]

Very hard water here. Severn Trent, Staffordshire. We have one of these. Scalewatcher. Have had it for the 30years we’ve been here. Previous owners had a saline system which obviously worked well as they’d disconnected it…

Scalewatcher claimed, at the time we bought the first one, that it had been tested and approved by the local RAF base.

We still have scale problems. Would they be worse without? 🤷‍♂️

 

[fossyant]

Can't help sorry. Manchester get's it's "finest corporation pop" from Cumbria. Soft water.

https://www.ice.org.uk/what-is-civi...ure-projects/thirlmere-aqueduct-and-reservoir

 

[Sharky]

Hard water here in Kent. We use a Britex filter jug, with matra cartridges and fill up the kettle from the filtered water jug.

 

[Ridgeway]

So here hard water is a real issue and I’d say at least 50% of homes have a water softening system installed, in 99% of cases they are salt based systems because they work very well. Culligan is the market leader here and systems are around £3-4k installed but then you have a service contract for the filter changes, cleaning and salt supply.

The difference in a house with/without is quite unbelievable. So much easier cleaning of any surfaces, particularly bathroom and kitchen. Washing machine lasts longer and you use less powder, less gunk build up in the machine as well = clothes are cleaner. Hot water has less limescale build up so heats up better and is more efficient etc etc.

The magnetic ones do very little and whilst might be OK when the water isn’t too hard they simply can’t cope with real hard water situations. We’ve also tried a Co2 injector system but didn’t find that it worked that well.

Salt is the way to go from what i see here.

 

[Fastpedaller]

I've disconnected 3 water softeners in the last few years and only fitted one. Two I disconnected because the copper pipes developed leaks - I'm unaware of the salt ratio, but suffice to say it happened. The third was an elderly lady's and she (understandably) didn't want the hassle of filling it with salt. the one I fitted....... I said to the customer "Have you looked at the economics of this? It costs on salt and it may make a small difference eg your washing machine may last 10 years instead of 9, but in my opinion, it's not economical, and I'd check with the boiler manufacturer whether salt in the water will affect the heat exchanger in the boiler". They said they understood it wouldn't be 'Derbyshire' water, as I'd explained the calcium salts (limescale) are just converted to sodium salts, but they wanted the 'feel' or soft water. On the day I went to fit it (they'd sourced it, and it was a lot of money) I asked "Did you check with the boiler manufacturer", they hadn't, but they did whilst I was there and the response was "that should be ok". They believed what they wanted to hear, I fitted it and heard no more.
BTW The 'magnet' ones are a con - ask yourself how they can remove limescale but never need cleaning/filter removal?
Funnily enough, I went to a customer about 10 years ago who tried to sell them to me! I said, "I'll borrow one for a year and try it in my house - I'd have to make sure it works if I'm to sell them to customers". Strangely he wouldn't lend me one, but would sell me one for £70, claiming "we know they work". Ironically I'd just fitted a new filler valve to the toilet in his house because it was choked with limescale

 

[Tenkaykev]

I've disconnected 3 water softeners in the last few years and only fitted one. Two I disconnected because the copper pipes developed leaks - I'm unaware of the salt ratio, but suffice to say it happened. The third was an elderly lady's and she (understandably) didn't want the hassle of filling it with salt. the one I fitted....... I said to the customer "Have you looked at the economics of this? It costs on salt and it may make a small difference eg your washing machine may last 10 years instead of 9, but in my opinion, it's not economical, and I'd check with the boiler manufacturer whether salt in the water will affect the heat exchanger in the boiler". They said they understood it wouldn't be 'Derbyshire' water, as I'd explained the calcium salts (limescale) are just converted to sodium salts, but they wanted the 'feel' or soft water. On the day I went to fit it (they'd sourced it, and it was a lot of money) I asked "Did you check with the boiler manufacturer", they hadn't, but they did whilst I was there and the response was "that should be ok". They believed what they wanted to hear, I fitted it and heard no more.
BTW The 'magnet' ones are a con - ask yourself how they can remove limescale but never need cleaning/filter removal?
Funnily enough, I went to a customer about 10 years ago who tried to sell them to me! I said, "I'll borrow one for a year and try it in my house - I'd have to make sure it works if I'm to sell them to customers". Strangely he wouldn't lend me one, but would sell me one for £70, claiming "we know they work". Ironically I'd just fitted a new filler valve to the toilet in his house because it was choked with limescale

That's a useful perspective. I'm aware that the magnetic ones are a con, there's no evidence base. When my copper HW tank strung a pinhole leak after 20+ years I had a Stainless steel tank fitted. The plumber and I took the old copper taank into the garden and cut the top off to see what 20+ years of hard water had done. It was clean with just a watery milky layer a couple of mil deep sitting on he bottom. Several years ago a friend has his tank fail and there were a significant amount of limescale slivers several inches deep in his tank. The only difference was that I used to heat the water using the gas boiler so the water was heated over the much greater area of the internal coil, his was heated using an immersion heater of which he'd had several replacements over the years.

 

[JtB]

We live in a hard water area (Hampshire) and have a block salt softener which seems to work well. However we have a separate drinking tap which is filtered hard water so we still need to descale out kettle and coffee machine.

PS. When our old gas boiler packed up we replaced it with a Viessmann boiler which has a stainless steel heat exchanger and is supposedly more suited to water softeners.

 

[slowmotion]

I've spent my entire life living in hard water areas (Hampshire and London) and have never needed a water softener. Yes, the kettle gets furred up a bit but you can get a kilo of citric acid for about a fiver on Ebay, and it's enough for about five years. The second house I lived in in London had a water softener. I disconnected it.

Anyway, isn't hard water supposed to be good for your teeth?

 

[november4]

I would go for it. When I travel I buy bottled water for my whisky, hard water is too chalky, can really taste the difference.

 

[slowmotion]

I would go for it. When I travel I buy bottled water for my whisky, hard water is too chalky, can really taste the difference.

When I travel, I too buy bottled water but I don't drop a couple of grand on an unnecessary gadget for my house back home.

 

[fossyant]

Tea is rubbish in hard water areas.

 

[slowmotion]

Tea is rubbish in hard water areas.

Bottled water?

 

[lazybloke]

Tea is rubbish in hard water areas.

Maybe just a matter of opinion? Or the way you make your tea?
I like a strong builders tea, and don't have any issue with it being made from soft water, hard water, or even from softened water.
It's the tea & milk I taste.

If I'm just having a glass of tap water, then soft or hard is fine, but softened is not; I don't like its metallic quality.

 

[fossyant]

Maybe just a matter of opinion? Or the way you make your tea?
I like a strong builders tea, and don't have any issue with it being made from soft water, hard water, or even from softened water.
It's the tea & milk I taste.

If I'm just having a glass of tap water, then soft or hard is fine, but softened is not; I don't like its metallic quality.

Oh no. We're spoilt with Cumbria's finest vintage. Hard water tea is rubbish.