Vintage Claud Butler identification

[Phil may]

So, im trying to ID this wee beastie. The frame number doesnt seem to tally with any published data that I can find. It is full Campag apart fromnthe weinneman 999 brakes and a cheapo mech. I think it might be a European from about 1957/8 but that is a gut feeling from trauling VCC catalogue

 

[Drago]

That's lovely! I'm not sure the wheels are original, though I'm not a huge expert of olde Claud. Those mudguards were fitted to the later Claud, like my 1983 Sierra, and appear to be in superb condition.

I'm pretty sure the rear carrier is aftermarket, late 80's ish.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

I'm pretty sure the rear carrier is aftermarket, late 80's ish.

Tend to agree with that. Looks rather like the factory fit one I took off my Raleigh Royal, which was made in 1985.

 

[Illaveago]

When did they switch from using transfer headache to metal ones ?
I wrote head badge !

 

[midlife]

The 531 decal puts it before my time (70's). Looks 50's to my eye.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

Would that sticker indicate 531 plain gauge throughout or 531 DB in the main triangle only? If plain gauge then it could conceivably be of the same era as the Raleigh Lentons.
It certainly doesn't look like anything seen on display in bike shops during my lifetime.

 

[Illaveago]

Would that sticker indicate 531 plain gauge throughout or 531 DB in the main triangle only? If plain gauge then it could conceivably be of the same era as the Raleigh Lentons.
It certainly doesn't look like anything seen on display in bike shops during my lifetime.
[/QUOTE
To me it looks like a plain gauge main triangle frame tubes transfer 50's to 70's.
1958/59 was when they became part of Holdsworth.

 

[biggs682]

The 531 decal puts it before my time (70's). Looks 50's to my eye.

Similar to the one on my 50's Mottram

But then the guard mounts are not in same area so I am going for 60's.
Either way just enjoy it.

 

[Illaveago]

Just found a site which dates the transfer to the Holdsworth period of 1958 to 60's as the transfer doesn't have the white address label at the bottom .

 

[Phil may]

I saw that. But the frame number doesnt tally with the date as far as I can tell

 

[CBGuy]

I bet this is a frame built in CB factory in early 1958, shortly before Holdsworthy takeover. I'd guess lay in stock on July acquisition and subsequently painted and decaled by Holdworthy with their newly designed CB signature badge with London address on seat and head tubes. I've seen a couple other frames thought to date to 1958, with same signature badge, also with a similar stamping sequence along BB edge - different than earlier Claud numbering. Other frames have numbers 458571 and 558774. Wonder if your #358283 signifies May 1958 and 283rd build??? A bit of a grey area.

For 1959 model year, newly launched Holdsworthy Claud frames started with a simple sequential system that progressed presumably from 1 until year 1976 when numbers reached early 70,000's. #358283 as you say doesn't fit in this serial system.
See Kilgariff's site and "Frame Dating" page that links to Dave Scrimshaw's table and graphs describing Holdsworth and CB serial systems.

 

[Dave Scrimshaw]

Seems some logic to that as a system assuming you mean March 58. I have logged this accordingly with the others having same numbering style and location. That said we also have 1158758/1158777 that bucks the trend. I guess that can be partly explained by the change of ownership. after this we have a bunch of much latter frames with six digits of a different style which looks a lot like the latter Holdsworth numbers that also can't be explained.

 

[CBGuy]

My bad. Meant March not May as in prior post.

As you say Dave 1158 numbers could still be November and stamped during transition to Holdsworthy and before they went to simple sequential system used for introductory CB 1959 models.

Then there is question of following numbers in serials and assuming they represent “build” number? Perhaps sometimes out of sequence explained by numbers allotted in groups to individual outside CB builders - something I’ve seen expressed by others and similar to what was done by Holdsworthy for Putney shop builds.

A rather unclear period. Fun to theorize/hypothesize but needs to be tested with more and good data.

 

[South_London_Velo]

Lovely bike... I have a similar age frame - one of the two mentioned by CBGuy in his post above - 458571

 

[classic33]

Just found a site which dates the transfer to the Holdsworth period of 1958 to 60's as the transfer doesn't have the white address label at the bottom .

1937?
http://classiccycleus.com/home/1937-claud-butler-tour-dangleterre/