Upgrading wheels ? discuss...

[gbb]

Just going to throw this one in, see if it's just me that's a sceptic.

One of the first things we all talk about when upgrading a bike is wheels....gotta have new wheels
Hmm...based on my experiences, does it REALLY make that much difference (unless you're spending some serious money of course)
Its hard to quantify of course, i'm getting a bit older each year, probably a bit slower, but say 5 years ago i was riding a Raleigh Chimera with stock Rigida rims and unbranded hubs, loadsa spokes, and my average over a known circuit was IRO 15 to 16 mph.
Successive bikes and stock wheels, that average hasnt really changed, barring the year i put extraordinary effort in.
Latest bike, upgraded to Fulcrum 5s some months ago. At first, they were definately slower than the wheels i'd just took off. I assumed freshly packed grease would free up and they'd improve.
I remember saying in a review based on that, if my experience is typical, you would NOT want to buy new wheels for a race. You'd be at a disadvantage straight away.

Anyway, i got impatient and upgraded the bearings to low friction versions...instant and immediate improvement.

But, why is it i'm still averaging what i always did ? The wheels, despite expectations, have made little or no difference overall. TBF they really speed up quickly on downhills, but thats the only tangible difference i can actually feel.

TBF, £150 for a pair of wheels isnt going to give you anything earth shattering, but they are supposed to be a couple levels above cheap wheels at the least. By the same token, i love having them, they look better, they feel better.

Whats your take on it.

 

[kfinlay]

If you are used to riding at a particular level and don't try to improve then a slightly better set of wheels aren't going to do anything to make you faster. Improving your legs will make you faster and it's cheaper than upgrading your wheels as all you need to do is put more effort in (eg some interval work). Better wheels can be stiffer/lighter to help on the hills or there can be aero benefits (although not with Fulcrum 5s) or sometimes even both but to go faster you need to work on what tends to be the least efficient part of the whole setup - ie you doing the pedalling!

 

[gbb]

If you are used to riding at a particular level and don't try to improve then a slightly better set of wheels aren't going to do anything to make you faster. Improving your legs will make you faster and it's cheaper than upgrading your wheels as all you need to do is put more effort in (eg some interval work). Better wheels can be stiffer/lighter to help on the hills or there can be aero benefits (although not with Fulcrum 5s) or sometimes even both but to go faster you need to work on what tends to be the least efficient part of the whole setup - ie you doing the pedalling!

Exactly !!!
Thats why i put the bit in about where i put extraordinary effort in to up my average to 18mph.

I really don't want to p1ss on someones bonfire, but IME, you'll never feel any tangible difference unless you spend some serious money.

That said, it could be argued that if i'd have stayed on stock wheels, my averages may have slipped over the years, and that an advantage has been gained by upgrading the wheels..ie its masked my (only possible) slight loss of fitness due to age.

Meh, either way, no regrets getting the wheels from my point of view, it increases the pleasure of ownership, kindles the desire to keep on the bike, looks better etc etc etc.

 

[the_mikey]

Depends on the wheels. All bikes I have bought new have come with wheels that appear to be made of cheese, they were so bad that I rejected the thought of trying to raise a pound or two out of selling them on ebay, it just wouldn't be fair. The upgraded wheels worked, and weren't made of cheese, and I am now much happier.

 

[PpPete]

When I ordered my Van Nic none of the wheel options on offer met my requirements so I took it with the basic Fulcrum 7s, knowing that I'd replace them fairly swiftly with some handbuilts of my own concoction.
So I replaced a £130 wheelset with £300+ wheelset that was marginally heavier, much stiffer - and importantly to me, had a number of conventional J-spokes such that a single broken one would not spell the end of the ride.... important if long audaxes are on the menu.
Am I fasterthan if i'd kept the Fulcrums on there? Probably not. Am I happier ? yes.

 

[smokeysmoo]

Hmm...based on my experiences, does it REALLY make that much difference (unless you're spending some serious money of course)

Define your parameters of serious money. When I bought my CAAD 10 I took the chance to upgrade the stock wheels to Mavic Ksyrium SL. The price difference between the two meant it was an 'inexpensive' upgrade at the point of purchase as I basically traded the wheels with the shop, however the list price at the time for the SL's was circa £700. The most I've ever previously spent on a wheelset is around £200.
I came to the CAAD after riding a Focus Cayo Pro with DT Swiss R1900 wheels for a couple of years, and the difference between the two is definite.
The Mavic's roll far better, they climb far better and they give me more confidence. How? I've not a clue How much is psychological? I dunno! Would I feel differently if I had a pair of Zipp 404's? I don't know that either, (and never will )
Sorry I can't give more technical reasons as to why they are better, but like PpPete said, they make me happy and that's worth it's weight in gold

 

[Crimmey]

I've spent a small fortune on wheels over the past 3 years, coming up to about 12 sets and I've ridden countless others. It has only really been last year where I've sat back and gone 'they ain't making me quicker.' I think that moment came when I've been able to try different frames out and positioning. Stiff frames feel fast and in my experience climb better as you can feel' all the power being' transferred to the road. Like smokeysmoo I've ridden a Cayo with the same wheels and was disappointed. However I've also ridden a Cannondale super SIx ( not the super light/stiff one) with the Mavic SL wheels and was even less impressed as I expected big things for the price but the frame just soaked everything up. Don't tell Cannondale but it's an old man's bike. I'm guessing the CAAD is way stiffer?
I have just bought an old alloy TT frame for £100 to use as a road bike, it just looks like all these fancy new carbon aero jobbies being touted around recently...Venge, foil.... It's 'heavy', its stiff and It climbs amazingly well ( climbed 9000ft Sunday just gone) and the really low position gives me a great aero advantage and has given me the most speed improvement over a really short space of time - instantly. It feels like my Scott Addict SL, unbelievably just a tad heavier. You don't like a stiff frame? just use nice soft rubber with a little less PSI but Im on my 3rd set this winter.
My best wheel purchase has to be my handbuilts with 'J' bend spokes like PpPete said . Cheap and easy to source and to replace. Peace of mind if something goes wrong. Im not even convinced that my deep section wheels help much in TT's either - 3 sets of these. The best 'feeling' wheels I have ever ridden were a pair of Shimano R500's that belonged to my good friend who had just serviced them himself after owning them for a good few years. Super stiff, rolled like silk.

 

[Cletus Van Damme]

I am not a really experienced rider and the wheels that I upgraded to are not exactly high end. When I first got my Secteur Sport it had low end Alexrim wheels fitted with 25c width tyres. The rear Alexrim wheel was constantly going out of out of true and I was fed up of it. In the end I got sick of it and upgraded the wheels to Mavic Aksiums and changed the tyres to Vredestein Fortezza Tricomp's 23c at a higher pressure. I could notice a difference in that the bike appeared to pick up speed slightly faster and rolled for longer whilst free-wheeling. This was at the expense of a slightly worse ride quality. Also the wheels have never gone out of true and they look way better. But I would guess that the improvements in speed etc are probably down to narrower tyres at higher pressures rather than the wheels. All the same I am very happy with these wheels and would not hesitate to buy another set in the future if needed. Spending anymore on lighter ones for my ability/bank balance would be wasted money, just IMHO.

 

[paulw1969]

interesting replies folks.
I am still to get my bike a Giant Defy 2. Now the frame is well regarded but reviews on this bike (and the Defy 1 i think) suggest to get the best out of the frame better wheels are recommended.
Obviously i cannot really comment yet as i haven't even got the bike but i think i would think twice about upgrading unless the wheels kept going out of true etc......i think it would make minimal difference at my level. I might however do a little research on truing and prepping my own wheels as it sounds as though this can make a difference. Having said that maybe the Giant brand wheels are that bad? Guess i will have to wait and see!

 

[gaz]

Upgrading tyres is not all about increasing your average.
There are 3 reasons why you would want better wheels.

• better acceleration
• more aero
• better climbing

To accelerate your bicycle you need to obviously make the wheels spin faster, the more mass the wheels have, the more work this requires.

Aero is what you want if you want to increase your average.

Better climbing comes from having a more even spread of weight around the tyre and having a good build quality.

 

[MattHB]

Upgrading tyres is not all about increasing your average.
There are 3 reasons why you would want better wheels.

• better acceleration
• more aero
• better climbing

To accelerate your bicycle you need to obviously make the wheels spin faster, the more mass the wheels have, the more work this requires.

Aero is what you want if you want to increase your average.

Better climbing comes from having a more even spread of weight around the tyre and having a good build quality.

Surely tho that these benefits are only worthwhile if you're really at the peak of fitness and carrying next to no body fat? I'm sure for most of us that just isnt the case.

 

[gaz]

Surely tho that these benefits are only worthwhile if you're really at the peak of fitness and carrying next to no body fat? I'm sure for most of us that just isnt the case.

no. the only one which is really about weight is the acceleration. Why can't a fat person take advantage of not having to rotate as much mass?

 

[the_mikey]

I have a 2010 Defy2, and the supplied wheels at the time were Mavic CPX22 rims on giant formula bearings, it was cheese. I use fulcrum racing 7's on it (minus the decals) and it's a much nicer ride.

 

[paulw1969]

I have a 2010 Defy2, and the supplied wheels at the time were Mavic CPX22 rims on giant formula bearings, it was cheese. I use fulcrum racing 7's on it (minus the decals) and it's a much nicer ride.

in what way??
sorry i'm ignorant but interested as to how/why?

 

[jowwy]

I have just upgraded from my heavy weight stock wheels, to some lighter R500's - the difference was night and day. the felt easier to get going, rolled for ever and just felt smoother and that is after 3 weeks off having knee surgery - cant wait for my fitness to come back