Upgrading the bike - Chinese Style

[lejogger]

My best bike is a Boardman Team Carbon (2010). For those who are familiar, it's an excellent spec 'for the money' and I love it very much. However despite its excellent ride and handling, - realistically, it's a half decent carbon frame with pretty bog standard Ritchey wheels and finishing kit.

I've joined a club this year, and am getting more involved in events and races and would like to improve the existing bike without breaking the bank. I don't have any problems holding my own with the rest of the guys on what I have, but I think at least a decent set of carbon wheels would set me in the right direction to perhaps putting in some half-decent times.

Now if it came down to investing in Zipps then I just wouldn't bother as I don't have £2-£3k to spend, but perusing ebay yesterday I saw a couple of retailers (carbonzone & carbon_bicycle) selling full carbon deep section wheelsets for around £300-£350 delivered.

Now this just seems insanely too good to be true. I've looked at feedback and reviews, and the vast majority seem very pleased with what they've ordered. Is it just that China mass produces carbon stuff therefore it's much cheaper, or are they really going to be of substandard quality?

While I was looking, I also saw carbon seat posts and bars going for silly money (cheap). I'm very very tempted.

Does anyone have any experience of buying from China? Should I take the plunge?

 

[Scilly Suffolk]

I might be wrong, but I seem to remember that gb155 bought a Chinese carbon frame & forks, so you could ask his opinion.

With so much being made in China and then marked-up and sold by European/US brands, I think it's fair to say that the Chinese do have the skills and equipment to make high quality goods.

Whether that is what is being offered at rock bottom prices on Ebay is another question...

 

[Monsieur Remings]

I personally haven't tried any of the wheels fom China but I was also tempted by the two companies you mention, and a few others. It's worth having a look for reviews; the majority I found were very favourable.

In the end I went with these for carbon wheels...http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=planet x&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CEcQjBAwAg&url=http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/c/q/wheels&ei=Xx5iT6v9N4qs0QWaqPCpCA&usg=AFQjCNHnn146Si507YpJRnbDUyisIJpjyg

The reason being they're closer to home and are pretty much the same price. I bought them because, despite being heavier than my standard Ksyriums alu clinchers, the 60mm means they're aero where weight becomes less of an issue. Some might disagree vehemently with this but why spend double the amount for the weight saving when the main constituent of aerodynamism isn't weight! You'll probably find those who will stick to Zipps, HEDS etc but are the extra bucks worth it? I don't think so personally but that's my choice.

On another level I have a friend who recently bought a 'Pinarello Dogma' from China. A member of his club had bought one, for around a 10th of the price of a real one and compared with the original said they were indistinguishable, so he bought one and he loves it. Okay there will always be those unwilling to part with their cash for a product without the genuine Pinarello tag but a closer look at what's going on, presumably, behind the scenes is worth considering...

For a start, why are companies like Pinarello outsourcing to the far-east? Answer, because it's cheaper. Are Pinarello, given their money-saving production choices, passing these savings on to the customer? Not likely. Finally though, are Pinarello having their arses bitten in the process? Definitely, I'd say.

These people offering the 'cheap replicas' know how to build the bikes, probably may even have the original moulds; infact, they may even work for Pinarello themselves but find it much more lucrative to do a sneaky bit on the side and pocket the cash themselves. I've no doubt then that the product is going to be the same as any other given that they've got the mould so spot on. (Maybe the weave or grade of carbon fibre used is different but if these people have the moulds and the technology, surely they'd also have access to the same carbon fibre as the originals?) I don't know is the answer to that last bit but I'm adamant that this is how these replicas come to be so much like the real thing.

Food for thought and the best of luck.

 

[Herzog]

With so much being made in China and then marked-up and sold by European/US brands, I think it's fair to say that the Chinese do have the skills and equipment to make high quality goods.

Yep, like pretty much all mainstream carbon frames on the market... even those badged as "made (i.e., assembled) in Italy (or wherever).

 

[Andrew_P]

http://inrng.com/2012/02/who-made-your-bike/ The only caveat would be that these suppliers would have very strict QC on site, the eBayers will be able to cut corners if the wish to do so..

 

[Strathlubnaig]

Regarding cheap Chinese knock offs with respect to stuff you really don't want to fail....

http://www.petzl.com/us/outdoor/new...-presence-counterfeit-versions-petzl-products

Wether you are hanging off it, lifting stuff with it or riding down some S bends at 60 km/h....you do want to trust stuff.

 

[Scilly Suffolk]

Regarding cheap Chinese knock offs with respect to stuff you really don't want to fail....

http://www.petzl.com/us/outdoor/new...-presence-counterfeit-versions-petzl-products

Wether you are hanging off it, lifting stuff with it or riding down some S bends at 60 km/h....you do want to trust stuff.

Agreed: it's being able to sort the sub-standard counterfeits from the unbranded but identical goods that is key.

 

[lejogger]

Regarding cheap Chinese knock offs with respect to stuff you really don't want to fail....

http://www.petzl.com/us/outdoor/new...-presence-counterfeit-versions-petzl-products

Wether you are hanging off it, lifting stuff with it or riding down some S bends at 60 km/h....you do want to trust stuff.

I see what you're saying, but I'm not after something that's an inferior replica of something that Wiggins uses. I was hoping to make savings by buying an unbranded, mass-produced item rather than an intentionally cheap and nasty imitation. Let's be honest, most of these things are made in the same factories to the same specifications. They may go on to be hand assembled and have fancy decals put on them to inflate the price, but essentially there's little difference in the actual product.

 

[Andrew_P]

I see what you're saying, but I'm not after something that's an inferior replica of something that Wiggins uses. I was hoping to make savings by buying an unbranded, mass-produced item rather than an intentionally cheap and nasty imitation. Let's be honest, most of these things are made in the same factories to the same specifications. They may go on to be hand assembled and have fancy decals put on them to inflate the price, but essentially there's little difference in the actual product.

OK, I am seriously not trying to put you off BUT there is a world of differnce between a multi million dollar corp buying from a Chinese factory and you buying a single pair of wheels. eBay feedback is easily manipulated by performing quickly, users tend to leave feedback when they recieve the items they ordered on time, quickly well packed and looking good, what you do not get on eBay is long term use feedback. Stick with the factories mentioned on a lot of bike forums and you should be ok.

I am biased as I am a small business importing products from Asian countries, quality varies greatly a good picture has normally been stolen from somewhere else and should be taken at face value. I am confident that you will not buy the same wheel from the same factory as say Mavic, they will protect themselves from that happening. So it will always be a look a like, it is just a case of finding a good quality one. If you Google melamine in Baby Milk or Melamine in pet food ingredients it will will give a fair representation of what some Chinese factories are prepared to do to increase the bottom line!

For instance Merida is on of Specialized biggest frame suppliers, but they wouldn't sell you one or one thousand un-labelled Tarmac frames.

 

[VamP]

Easy way around it is to buy from Planet X or similar. They use cheap Chinese wheels, but buy in bulk and get a reasonable QC assurance. You pay premium over eBay, but not a huge one. If you go for the Paul Curran version, they are handbuilt by a master builder too, so superior build finish to most factory builds.

I don't see a lot of people complaining about PX wheelsets, they are generally well regarded, and there is huge volume of them out there.

Tubular versions available too for similar price

 

[Hacienda71]

I have a cheap chinese carbon frame

It works for me. I have done over 1000 miles on it this winter with no complaints despite the potholed commutes and weekend rides I have used it for. It isn't trying to be anything, it isn't painted up to be a Pina or Trek it is what it is. The build is sub 8kg and it rides well. It absorbs rode vibration superbly but is also light enough and stiff enough to climb well in the Pennines. I did a lot of research before buying it and came to the conclusion that there were more scare stories than actual incidents, if you want to scare yourself you can find reports of genuine carbon Pinarellos failing in a catastrophic way. My aluminium Ribble failed which is why I ended up buying this.
One observation I would make is that the lower end carbon frames from some of the main uk retailers will be built in China using the same tehcniques and carbon as the unbranded stuff you see on line.

 

[smokeysmoo]

I might be wrong, but I seem to remember that gb155 bought a Chinese carbon frame & forks, so you could ask his opinion.

You're spot on JTW. gb155 has actually had about 3 ccf frames now, and not had any issues with nay of them AFIK. He just changes his bikes like most of us change our socks
So he's a definate target for any ccf related questions you may have lejogger

 

[lejogger]

Thanks for the advice guys. To be honest I will probably end up going the Planet X route. It does just provide that extra peace of mind that you're covered should anything go wrong. But I'll put a bit more investigation into the China suppliers to see if there are any longer term reviews or experiences that might persuade me again.

 

[VamP]

Thanks for the advice guys. To be honest I will probably end up going the Planet X route. It does just provide that extra peace of mind that you're covered should anything go wrong. But I'll put a bit more investigation into the China suppliers to see if there are any longer term reviews or experiences that might persuade me again.

One thing to bear in mind, that most people don't notice until they've got there, is that for good braking efficiency you will want to use different pads for carbon wheels (e.g. Swisstop Yellows). This presents an obvious problem if you're planning to switch between alloy and carbon wheelsets regularly. This is in fact the main reason I use alloy wheelsets for training AND racing.

 

[smokeysmoo]

Thanks for the advice guys. To be honest I will probably end up going the Planet X route. It does just provide that extra peace of mind that you're covered should anything go wrong. But I'll put a bit more investigation into the China suppliers to see if there are any longer term reviews or experiences that might persuade me again.

FWIW the Planet X frames will be built in the Far East anyway, but I know what your saying about the local back up aspect