Undermining the cause?

[benborp]

Does anyone believe that these figures are 'the final nail in the coffin for speed cameras'?

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/148579/Crash-deaths-drop-to-zero-after-speed-cameras-axed-

 

[jonesy]

Does anyone believe that these figures are 'the final nail in the coffin for speed cameras'?

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/148579/Crash-deaths-drop-to-zero-after-speed-cameras-axed-

Only people who were already opposed to them and clutch at any straw to 'prove' they don't work...

 

[joolsybools]

The numbers they are talking about are far too small to be relevant

 

[GrasB]

Statistical noise used to beat the drum... not really a convincing argument against speed cameras imo.

Only people who were already opposed to them and clutch at any straw to 'prove' they don't work...

In all honesty I don't have a particular problem with speed cameras, I just think don't work as a behaviour changing mechanism per-se... I know a number of places where what happens is people speed between the speed cameras then jam the brakes on just before they go passed, so over a 5 mile stretch of road very few people get caught but for around 200m or so most people are speeding. This kinda illustrates the problem they're not solving, it's the "it's okay to speed as long as you don't get caught" mentality.

Average speed cameras (ASC) do a better job of controlling speeds over a certain stretch of road I find driving in ASC controlled areas more stressful than in non-ASC areas as people tend to simply drive closer together & put more pressure on people who aren't doing exactly the speed limit on their speedo. It just makes driving more stressful. Again this is more a driver perception problem than a speed camera issue.

Meh, it's a mine field... so let's just get on with life & realise speeding is bad in general regardless of opinions over what the speed limit should be on a given road.

 

[marinyork]

Average speed cameras (ASC) do a better job of controlling speeds over a certain stretch of road I find driving in ASC controlled areas more stressful than in non-ASC areas as people tend to simply drive closer together & put more pressure on people who aren't doing exactly the speed limit on their speedo. It just makes driving more stressful. Again this is more a driver perception problem than a speed camera issue.

Average speed cameras are usually referred to as SPECs and I refer the member to the A616.

I can't say I share the view about SPECs for long stretches. I'd say on balance that the stretches I've driven along have been considerably more relaxing vs heavy traffic levels at a higher speed as a lot of the moronic fooling around like following people's bumpers and weaving seems dramatically reduced. Of course people some people are going to get irritated when traffic levels are lower but there's no pleasing some people.

 

[GrasB]

SPECs is one type of average speed camera, it is the most common type but not the only type

In my experience as the traffic density increases I'm getting cut up & tail gated more & more. On the A14 it gets to the point often when I can't manage to maintain a 3 car length gap in front of me. The extra concentration required to deal with gaps that small is very wearing & stressful, far less so than dealing with cars approaching at +90mph from behind.

 

[marinyork]

I know they aren't the only ones. There are some very dramatic reductions on accidents on some SPECs.

The gaps say doing 50mph aren't very large but I find that in high volume traffic people can leave identical gaps at 70 or 80mph and that's a lot more dangerous in my books, especially if a hill comes along and they'll smack right into the back of some slower moving vehicle. And then there are all the other silly behaviours.

It certainly takes concentration and is monotonous but in some ways I'd say the driving is better than when it's faster and the weaving, tail-gaiting and middle lane hogism seems to creep in.

I don't think the speed camera debate will ever be resolved by those that believe whatever they want as there are still plenty of places that don't have cameras that have both dangerous roads and ones that are a bit safer.

 

[GrasB]

See thats the thing, if the gaps stayed the same I wouldn't have a problem, maybe it's a local thing to cambridge/huntingdon area but I find the gaps degrease in size & the driving gets worse when you get to the stretch of road covered by the cameras.

 

[marinyork]

Quite possibly. Local roads often have their own quirks and driving cultures, some of those things are going to lead to problems. I've only been down the A14 once and it did seem quite an angry road.

 

[dellzeqq]

that's one of the best descriptions of a road I've ever had the pleasure to read. Totally on the money - joining the A14 at Ipswich and going toward Felixstowe you can smell the testosterone...

As for speed cameras - time will tell, but I think that central government will continue to defer to local partnerships.

 

[Cab]

Only convincing if you're an innumerate cretin.

 

[benborp]

Only convincing if you're an innumerate cretin.

And after having read the piece again I see that it is in fact 'another final nail in the coffin'. Harsh but fair Cab. Although I think you could add 'desperate' to your description in this instance.

 

[Fab Foodie]

All the article sheds light on is a very small amount of data (an insignificant amount).
Having said that, what were the accident stats for the 3 months BEFORE the cameras were in place, they might be more telling? Does the author not think that due to the cameras having been in place for 3 months, that peoples driving behaviour has not changed, or, that people still expect the cameras to be there and drive slowly because of it.
Stuff and nonsense... and it's in the Express, the Daily Wail wannabe...

 

[StuartG]

It never stops amazing me how people's personal agendas can make them immune to reason. For more, in spades, do visit the ABD website if only to wonder at the amazing ability of a collection of motorists to outwit the finest expert minds on climate. You might also enjoy this Q&A on another Cyclist Forum discussion on the ABD: http://www.abd.org.uk/answers.htm

 

[Fab Foodie]

And after having read the piece again I see that it is in fact 'another final nail in the coffin'. Harsh but fair Cab. Although I think you could add 'desperate' to your description in this instance.

Post of the year...











...for silliness