Trek FX-2 ebike - faulty after 8 months

[pclay]

In November 2023 I took delivery of a Trek FX-2+ e-bike.

Everything was fine until July 2024 and the bike would not switch on. I could plug the charger in and it would turn on, but when removing the charger, it shwitched off and would not turn on. I cannot take the bike back to where I purchased it from - the store is 200miles away. The bike was purchased on a cycle to work scheme.

I found a local dealer who kept the bike for a month and ended up replacing the battery. I went to collect the bike, and whilst I was in the store, it would not switch on. "The battery must be dead" the staff said, or "the bike needs to be woken up out of hibernation". The store did not have a battery charger so could not charge it or test it.

So I took the bike home, and now when I plug the charger in nothing happens at all. And the bike still does not switch on. I can see this dragging on for months. Do I have any legal right to return the bike as being unfit for use, or do I have to give them a suitable chance of fixing it - even though it is now 6 weeks and I have not ridden it. I am still paying my salary sacrificce for a bike I can't ride. (well i can ride it, but you know what I mean)

For info, the bike has only done 300km and has not been ridden in rain or abused in any way. 2 mile trips to the train station and back.

Thanks

 

[fossyant]

You need to go back to an authorised dealer (i.e. the bike shop) - take the charger. Even though it's only done a short mileage, I guess it's in use every day considering your commute on it is just 4 miles a day. Is it left out in the rain ?

We can't really help as there is an issue, so it needs to go back. You've had it too long for a reject and get my money back, but it's more complicated as you don't own the bike, so are responsible for getting it fixed at an authorised bike shop.

 

[pclay]

You need to go back to an authorised dealer (i.e. the bike shop) - take the charger. Even though it's only done a short mileage, I guess it's in use every day considering your commute on it is just 4 miles a day. Is it left out in the rain ?

We can't really help as there is an issue, so it needs to go back. You've had it too long for a reject and get my money back, but it's more complicated as you don't own the bike, so are responsible for getting it fixed at an authorised bike shop.

Thanks. I've emailed the original place where I purchased the bike from to see what they suggest and I will ring the LBS who supposedly just fixed it and see what they say. It's just frustrating, that I'm 'hiring' a bike i can't ride

For info,pp I work from home 3 days a week, so my commute is only twice week, and the bike is left indoors at the station, in a heated, secure cycle storage room.

 

[Gwylan]

Did you pay for it with a credit card?

Yes, contact the card company for your money.
Growl and carry a big stick.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

If it is less than a year old and has not done many miles then it can be claimed to be unsuitable for the intended use

or something like that

You would need to contact the original seller as your claim would have to be with them

 

[bonzobanana]

When the dealer replaced the battery pack was that under warranty? Those battery packs can be expensive. So many faults prevent the ebike switching on, it could be the battery, controller, torque sensor bottom bracket, hub motor or a cable with poor connections. The proprietary nature of such ebikes also makes it more difficult to diagnose unless you are a Trek dealer with the right equipment. The main thing that concerns me about this model is it seems to have a very low 250Wh battery so the cells are under a lot of stress as there are so few of them. Trek claim up uto 40Nm but the battery pack is only 250Wh which shared by 36v is less than 7Ah. So could just be 2 3500mAh cells in parallel and I think it likely is because the ebike is only around 17kg. It feels like the obsession with being lightweight has compromised the long term reliability of the ebike. Roughly speaking it takes 10W to deliver 1 Newton Metre of torque for legal assistance speed ebikes so I think for this ebike to generate 40Nm it will be discharging the battery pack at 400W or each cell at over 5.5A. I think the Gtech ebikes had a similar small capacity battery which often failed early and sent out data to the controller that the battery cells were failing and struggling or the discharging temperature was too high. 300km sounds like 10 charge cycles or less, Really even though the small capacity battery pack is under additional stress even those Gtech battery packs were probably good for 150 charges before failure which is tiny compared to the 500 or more charges most battery packs can provide.

I really don't like the way many of these expensive proprietary ebikes use tiny capacity battery packs with very high discharge rates. There was a recent offer of a 245 pound ebike at Argos. It comes with a 313Wh battery and the controller has a discharge rate of 4A shared over perhaps 3 or 4 cells in parallel. Decathlon do a similar ebike for 900 pounds and it has a lower capacity battery pack they weirdly claim something like 227-290Wh capacity rather than a fixed value and that has 3 output modes of 100,160 and 250W so larger capacity battery spread over more cells in parallel but much reduced current output from the controller. Yet Gtech and Trek it seems went for cheap low capacity battery packs but with very high discharge rates and have questionable reliability. Lightweight battery packs with the cells having a very high discharge rate is a short life product in my opinion. Also the constant hot/cold cycles of the battery pack worry me a bit too. That heat will be passed on to the components within the battery pack and perhaps any other components nearby. Anyone with a lot of hills in their area will be running that battery pack hot a lot of the time.

 

[pclay]

Thank you for the replies. It was purchased on a cycle to work scheme, so I am effectivley 'hiring' it at the moment for £170 per month pre tax. Im frustrated becasue it has't been able to be switched on for the last 6 weeks.

This thread will become my 'Blog', until such a time that the bike is fixed......

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

When the dealer replaced the battery pack was that under warranty? Those battery packs can be expensive. So many faults prevent the ebike switching on, it could be the battery, controller, torque sensor bottom bracket, hub motor or a cable with poor connections. The proprietary nature of such ebikes also makes it more difficult to diagnose unless you are a Trek dealer with the right equipment. The main thing that concerns me about this model is it seems to have a very low 250Wh battery so the cells are under a lot of stress as there are so few of them. Trek claim up uto 40Nm but the battery pack is only 250Wh which shared by 36v is less than 7Ah. So could just be 2 3500mAh cells in parallel and I think it likely is because the ebike is only around 17kg. It feels like the obsession with being lightweight has compromised the long term reliability of the ebike. Roughly speaking it takes 10W to deliver 1 Newton Metre of torque for legal assistance speed ebikes so I think for this ebike to generate 40Nm it will be discharging the battery pack at 400W or each cell at over 5.5A. I think the Gtech ebikes had a similar small capacity battery which often failed early and sent out data to the controller that the battery cells were failing and struggling or the discharging temperature was too high. 300km sounds like 10 charge cycles or less, Really even though the small capacity battery pack is under additional stress even those Gtech battery packs were probably good for 150 charges before failure which is tiny compared to the 500 or more charges most battery packs can provide.

I really don't like the way many of these expensive proprietary ebikes use tiny capacity battery packs with very high discharge rates. There was a recent offer of a 245 pound ebike at Argos. It comes with a 313Wh battery and the controller has a discharge rate of 4A shared over perhaps 3 or 4 cells in parallel. Decathlon do a similar ebike for 900 pounds and it has a lower capacity battery pack they weirdly claim something like 227-290Wh capacity rather than a fixed value and that has 3 output modes of 100,160 and 250W so larger capacity battery spread over more cells in parallel but much reduced current output from the controller. Yet Gtech and Trek it seems went for cheap low capacity battery packs but with very high discharge rates and have questionable reliability. Lightweight battery packs with the cells having a very high discharge rate is a short life product in my opinion. Also the constant hot/cold cycles of the battery pack worry me a bit too. That heat will be passed on to the components within the battery pack and perhaps any other components nearby. Anyone with a lot of hills in their area will be running that battery pack hot a lot of the time.

Sounds very like marketing winning using weight as a selling point when the thing the buyers really needs to know is range per charge

Problem is how on Earth you measure range?? - I mean - put it on a track and put even an old unfit person on it (like me!) and I could ride it at 17 mph for ages and use naff all power as it is past legal the motor cut off
(OK - assuming I didn;t fall off - which I probably would but that isn;t the point)

so it ends up being a bit like Diesel-Gate

 

[wiggydiggy]

Thank you for the replies. It was purchased on a cycle to work scheme, so I am effectivley 'hiring' it at the moment for £170 per month pre tax. Im frustrated becasue it has't been able to be switched on for the last 6 weeks.

This thread will become my 'Blog', until such a time that the bike is fixed......

If it's C2W it may be worth bringing your employer up to speed on this, and depending on the terms of your contract if you have the option to buy the bike at the end tell them now unless the issues are resolved you won't be doing so - this probably won't help resolve issues but it will save you some money at the end.

 

[si_c]

I would contact Trek. Their after sales support is very good and your bike is well within warranty. They probably won't collect it but will arrange for it to be repaired through one of their authorised service centres.

 

[Kingfisher101]

I'd pack it up and post it back to the original shop and get them to deal with it.

 

[bonzobanana]

Sounds very like marketing winning using weight as a selling point when the thing the buyers really needs to know is range per charge

Problem is how on Earth you measure range?? - I mean - put it on a track and put even an old unfit person on it (like me!) and I could ride it at 17 mph for ages and use naff all power as it is past legal the motor cut off
(OK - assuming I didn;t fall off - which I probably would but that isn;t the point)

so it ends up being a bit like Diesel-Gate

If its a torque sensing bottom bracket then the motor assistance range is quite wide and heavier or fitter riders will create different issues. I remember reading a forum posting of a lightweight fit rider who got huge range out of his ebike because he rarely travelled at 15.5mph or less so the assistance was rarely on. In contrast you read of others with similar ebikes who are unfit and cause the torque sensor to limit assistance as they cannot generate much power themselves for the torque sensor system to amplify. Then you have heavy riders who are capable of really pushing down on the pedals and getting maximum assistance from the motor system which means the battery pack runs much hotter and is more stressed as is the motor. Then you see a discussion where people are almost arguing about the assistance range which varies so hugely between the different riders. I get 60 miles, I only get 8 miles, I get 20 miles etc.

 

[pclay]

The bike went back to the local dealer the other day. Apparently after they replaced the battery they rode it round the shop and it was fine. But it still won't switch on. So I took it back again. I had a message today from them saying that they think the charger is faulty. Hmm I'm not sure about that, why would a faulty charger cause an ebike to not turn on?

Anyway, I wait to hear more updates.

I'm tempted to wait till the end of the C2W scheme in November 2024 and buy the bike outright fir the residual value, which should be zero (or even I minus figure) if it still has faults. Then I could try and sell it privately

 

[Jenkins]

It's only 8 months old and is still under warranty. Get the original retailer or another Trek dealer nearer to you to sort it.

 

[mustang1]

When the dealer replaced the battery pack was that under warranty? Those battery packs can be expensive. So many faults prevent the ebike switching on, it could be the battery, controller, torque sensor bottom bracket, hub motor or a cable with poor connections. The proprietary nature of such ebikes also makes it more difficult to diagnose unless you are a Trek dealer with the right equipment. The main thing that concerns me about this model is it seems to have a very low 250Wh battery so the cells are under a lot of stress as there are so few of them. Trek claim up uto 40Nm but the battery pack is only 250Wh which shared by 36v is less than 7Ah. So could just be 2 3500mAh cells in parallel and I think it likely is because the ebike is only around 17kg. It feels like the obsession with being lightweight has compromised the long term reliability of the ebike. Roughly speaking it takes 10W to deliver 1 Newton Metre of torque for legal assistance speed ebikes so I think for this ebike to generate 40Nm it will be discharging the battery pack at 400W or each cell at over 5.5A. I think the Gtech ebikes had a similar small capacity battery which often failed early and sent out data to the controller that the battery cells were failing and struggling or the discharging temperature was too high. 300km sounds like 10 charge cycles or less, Really even though the small capacity battery pack is under additional stress even those Gtech battery packs were probably good for 150 charges before failure which is tiny compared to the 500 or more charges most battery packs can provide.

I really don't like the way many of these expensive proprietary ebikes use tiny capacity battery packs with very high discharge rates. There was a recent offer of a 245 pound ebike at Argos. It comes with a 313Wh battery and the controller has a discharge rate of 4A shared over perhaps 3 or 4 cells in parallel. Decathlon do a similar ebike for 900 pounds and it has a lower capacity battery pack they weirdly claim something like 227-290Wh capacity rather than a fixed value and that has 3 output modes of 100,160 and 250W so larger capacity battery spread over more cells in parallel but much reduced current output from the controller. Yet Gtech and Trek it seems went for cheap low capacity battery packs but with very high discharge rates and have questionable reliability. Lightweight battery packs with the cells having a very high discharge rate is a short life product in my opinion. Also the constant hot/cold cycles of the battery pack worry me a bit too. That heat will be passed on to the components within the battery pack and perhaps any other components nearby. Anyone with a lot of hills in their area will be running that battery pack hot a lot of the time.

I'm gonna have to read that a few times to understand it better but thanks for the explanation. What I do understand from this is that I'm happy that my e-mtb (Yamaha 65nm motor and 630kwh battery) weighs 26kg and is front-sus only.

@pclay that totally sucks about your bike. I hope it's resolved pretty soon. And sorry to learn this at your expense.