https://eu.usatoday.com/story/sport...n-disagreement-how-define-fairness/995434001/
Large can of worms to digest here.
Large can of worms to digest here.
Trans gender cyclists
- Thread starter pjd57
- Start date
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nickyboy
Norven Mankey
- Location
- You want hills? We got hills
My somewhat kneejerk reaction is that for sport to be compelling and "fair" nobody should have an advantage as a result of a characteristic outside that of their competitors
What I don't know is if the (presumably) naturally higher level of testosterone in a trans athlete is higher that all the female athletes or just higher than most. If trans athletes' testosterone level are real outliers then, regardless of human rights, I couldn't support them competing without some blocking of their natural testosterone. Otherwise the competition isn't who is the best cyclist (or runner or swimmer) but which trans athlete has the highest testosterone level
I assume that what ever a sport is they have testosterone levels that female athletes are permitted to have. Also assuming the level has a range that allows for natural variations such as higher level due to medical conditions such as PCOS. Then I see no problem with trans athlete having to take medication to block testosterone that fall's out of the rules. It's just being fair and equal to all.
fossyant
Ride It Like You Stole It!
- Location
- South Manchester
The Testosterone level permitted for a woman is below 10nmol, blooming heck, that's 5-6 times the normal upper end - women's highest range in nmol is about 1.8. Mens range is 8-30nmol, someone 30-40yrs, male would be about 18-22nmol on average.
Salty seadog
Space Cadet...(3rd Class...)
I'm with Bearden here, a "woman" with a mans body is not on a level playing field. It's a delicate situation but something trans athletes must accept. Just because you think you're a woman and change gender shouldn't give you every single right.
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nickyboy
Norven Mankey
- Location
- You want hills? We got hills
This is the but I need to understand better. Say a trans athlete reduced their level to 10, would that allow them a level higher than all non-trans women or higher than 95%, or 75%, or whatever
Higher than all non-trans women....that can't be right. But higher than "most" (however defined) I think is ok
fossyant
Ride It Like You Stole It!
- Location
- South Manchester
The thing is, the 'high' on T for a woman is less than 2.
Since 'volunteering' for the 'gentlemans operation' and subsequent 'repairs' my T went to 5, which wasn't funny. I couldn't breath on the bike, felt like I was knackered. Now on replacement therapy and it's gone up, but it's only 13 T max (way below normal of 20 for age) but my blood levels went from a low of 40 to 50 for a male - so I went back to upper end of 'oxygen transport' I feel OK now on the bike, but the 'other stuff' isn't great (being married). My blood count is now just hovering below what pro's are allowed, at 50, but endurance sport lowers it. I've moved from 40 to near 50 and felt normal again, never mine the T.
The problem in this case is the athlete has lived most of their life as a 'male' gets the differences of male traits, then changes. Nature has made that change already, and you can't change that.
I'm very sympathetic with it, but nature has already 'done it's worse' - our society etc.. this person entered full adulthood as someone they should not have been, but now has physical attributes of the 'wrong sex'.
Personally, I don't think it's fair for female athletes to compete on the same terms, at a change after puberty. The difference is there. Look at the picture of them on the plinth....
What a hot topic... I live and work in a gender fluid society, but you look at 'masters' races, there has to be some rules.... T reduction for 12 months won't stop 30 years of being medically male.
I have no answer.
tommaguzzi
Über Member
- Location
- County Durham
It is not just about testosterone.
m to f trans athletes benefit from muscle mass, bone structure and cardio vascular advantages gained from living most of their lives as adult males
female athletes can never compete with m to f high perfoming trans athletes.
human rights or not female athletes are being cheated, trans athletes should only compete with other trans athletes .
m to f trans athletes benefit from muscle mass, bone structure and cardio vascular advantages gained from living most of their lives as adult males
female athletes can never compete with m to f high perfoming trans athletes.
human rights or not female athletes are being cheated, trans athletes should only compete with other trans athletes .