Training Beginner making sense of Power / FTP

[KneesUp]

Dull background - cycled a lot as a kid. Gave up for 20 years or so when my bike was stolen / I passed my driving test. Started cycle commuting with the odd weekend ride when family commitments allowed. Changed jobs and train/bike commuted for a bit. Stopped that, and cycling of any kind in Covid because my one permitted exercise of the day was going for a walk with the kid.

I bought a smart trainer at the start of the year and have been gradually getting to grips with what it can do, what I can do, and trying to recover some fitness while trying out various bits of software and so on. I have started an actual, structured plan this week rather than just riding to get back int the habit, which is mostly what I've been doing so far.

I did an FTP test when I got the trainer and didn't do when again until yesterday, and it has fallen to 80% of what it was in January. It's gone from 'could just about pull the skin off a rice pudding' to 'the rice pudding wins every time' which is disappointing given I feel better.

There could be a number of factors here. The first test was the Garmin one and the second was via the MyWhoosh app, but they were both ramp tests. I can't find any details, so I *assume* that all FTP tests are sustainable power over the same time period? Maybe one is a 10 minute power and one is a 30 minute power or something? The first test was done when I had no idea what I was doing, so it's probable that I didn't calibrate it properly (my trainer is one with a roller).

I had noticed that on the odd occasion I did some of structured workouts on MyWhoosh using the FTP value from the Garmin test, I could not complete them, so I guess it was too high? Or - and here is the main question I suppose - is it expected you will fail to complete the workouts?

I think the true value lies somewhere between the two values I have, or I have worse stamina than most people so that although the ramp test style of FTP determination assumes if I can output a given power for a given time, I can produce a certain fraction of that power for longer, based on a normal distribution, I am at the far left of the curve, so my power output drops off a cliff after 5 minutes?

What is the cycle chat received wisdom on the best way to estimate FTP and use it for training? I have a smart trainer that does cadence and power, a Garmin Fenix 6x, which seems to do all the things the bike head units do but with a smaller screen, a chest strap and an iPad. Today I manually adjusted the FTP figure MyWhoosh was using so it felt like I think it should (threshold not easy, but can hold for 10 minutes plus, for example) so maybe doing it by feel is the best way? Or given the variance would you recommend just training off HR (but then that said, my max HR appears to be way lower than the age-based assumptions so I'd beed to determine that first)

Any input much appreciated. The more I learn about all of this the less I feel like I know what I am doing!

 

[Peter Salt]

I don't like tests. Get into virtual racing and just track your numbers - best way to push yourself.

FTP is average power over 60 minutes. Tests often make you do a 20-minute effort and just apply a 5% reduction (i.e. 200W for 20 min is FTP of 190W). Ramp test are more complicated and less accurate.

 

[Dogtrousers]

FTP is useful for doing pre-defined workouts, so the hard bits will be X% of FTP and the easy bits Y%. So it's harder for people with a higher FTP and easier for those with lower, and puts you into the appropriate power zones as intended by the person who designed it. And typically you should be able to finish workouts. Sometimes just about finish.

So if you can't handle a workout it's possible your FTP is set too high.

Doing a 20 minute test for FTP requires a degree of pacing skill that I don't have. I either blew myself up early or took it too cautious and got very variable results. But a ramp test is much more straightforward and should be consistent no matter what kit you are using. I think it's something like 75% of your highest minute before you collapsed. You should be able to do your own FTP test by designing a stepped power workout and doing the sums yourself it's pretty simple.

There are other techier ways to get an FTP figure. For example Trainerroad (I think) and Gamin can use algorithms and technical woo woo to come up with a figure. As I posted in another thread this can give ... er ... surprising results

 

[HLaB]

Trainer Road's Ramp tests take 75% of your last minute of the test, I assume other programs do similar. Its based on a bell curve though. and whilst thats very good for the majority as it involves little TSS, for some folk it'll test to high or too low. With me it would test too low and one low number would lead to an even lower number. I test better with a 20mins test. 20mins tests however, involve a lot of TSS and you can mis-pace them so I don't do them often. Fortunately for me TrainerRoad claims to have AI that can detect your FTP from you efforts at their varying workouts.

 

[HLaB]

I don't like tests. Get into virtual racing and just track your numbers - best way to push yourself.

FTP is average power over 60 minutes. Tests often make you do a 20-minute effort and just apply a 5% reduction (i.e. 200W for 20 min is FTP of 190W). Ramp test are more complicated and less accurate.

Depending the build up to the 20mins you may be best to take 90% of the best 20mins (or some where between 90 and 95%. The proper 20 mins test has a 5 min burn off period for anaerobic energy before the actual test of just aerobic power. If you've not burnt off the anaerobic energy it'll slightly pollute your 20mins and 95% is a slight over estimation. My old coach's 20 min test ha 2 x 1 min all out efforts before the 20mins and I found sometimes if I hadn't went all out enough 92% gave me a better estimate, that felt right in workouts.

 

[CXRAndy]

My best result for gaining FTP was after a couple of weeks in Tenerife cycling.

Came home did a race up the Alpe. For me it has always been over an hour's effort. I was feeling stronger from Tenerife. I held a consistent power to the top missed the climb sub 60 mins by 30 secs. 278W for one hour.

Never been near that number since probably cause I have not been back to Tenerife or been as light in weight