Tour series Durham

[SneakyLegend]

After watching the ITV video twice how was Zak Dempster allowed to take the victory in Durham?
After the crash in the early laps split the race and he wasnt in the leading 8. he then punctured and then punctured again( or had a mechanical)
after taking his allowed lap out he rejoined the race .
BUT
he rejoined with the lead group, much to the annoyance of one of the Motorpoint riders who can clearly be seen gesticulating about him entering the race with the leaders.
Yet nothing has been done and it looks like the result will stand

So whats going on? what were the commisaires doing?

 

[oldroadman]

Interesting. I was there (working nearby that few days) and he was in the front group after the second stop, I was near the finish and watched where he went back, there was some argument going on but it looked fair. Then just watching the TV which is edited down from and 80 minute race to about 20-25 minutes of screen time, it's difficult to see everything. Afterwards there didn't seem to be any problem with the Motorpoint team, Phil Griffiths was there and if he thought something was wrong he would have been complaining, but he wasn't. Perhaps all that you see on TV is like the papers, best taken with a pinch of salt. I wouldn't want the commissaires job anyway, whatever they do they seem to be criticised by someone, often who don't know the rules or what really has happened. All for expenses only - good luck to 'em!

 

[mudplugger]

After the crash in the early laps split the race and he wasnt in the leading 8. he then punctured and then punctured again( or had a mechanical)
after taking his allowed lap out he rejoined the race .
BUT
he rejoined with the lead group

If comments of riders in the group are to be believed, you are right. In addition to Motorpoint, the Endura riders also questioned why he was promoted as did one of the other teams who had a rider in the break. When it happened that gave Rapha a numerical advantage, so the other teams who had been happy to keep the break away, then sat up. It certainly changed the race as it was a very strong group, but not much you can do.

It presumably happens because the comm cannot check every riders position every lap, so either guesses (apparently wrongly in this case) or relies on the word of the rider or his manager. This time it appears to be Rafa but I'm sure other teams will stretch the elastic at any opportunity.

The rules are also open to abuse in that you can have a lap out once you reach the pits and on 2 occasions, but there is no limit on how long you take to reach the pit. Riders can stroll round getting a recovery while others are still having to race. Keep an eye open for this in future rounds.

There is no right of appeal once the Comms confirm the results, which is 10 mins or so after the finish. Presumably TV evidence is not available at that point. Additionally, the organisers will not want to admit errors as this suggests a lack of professionalism. Durham results last year were fictitious and bore no relevance to finishing positions. Many lapped riders were placed in front of non lapped riders. This was obvious from TV but team positions were never adjusted. A round later there was a cock up with the lap board that started going back up (from memory something like 3,3,4,2,1), totally screwed up the final laps but was never mentioned.

It was the first season so hopefully the teething troubles are over and the racing will be good, although neither Motorpoint or Endura appear that committed given their selections, so it could be a bit of an anticlimax. Motorpoint do not have enough riders to run a dual programme, so if a team is in Europe the same week as a Tour Series, they are stretched. Endura also run a dual program and have a lot of high quality ex Pro Tour riders and 2 other guys who won Tour Series rounds last year. None is likely to ride as they will not weaken teams for European races that offer many UCI ranking points to win low level British races that offer none. Just got a feeling the series may be an anticlimax if only Rapha of the "big 3" are fully committed....hope not.

 

[oldroadman]

If that's right, the commissaires made a mistake - it happens. I wouldn't want their job (a volunteer one), because of the comments made. Easy when you are not watching everything and have several riders in the pits at once, and I'm certain that they can't be recording every rider in every group at a race like Durham where it splits to pieces almost from the off. I watched the Welsh round on TV and thought that it was all fair, except as has been said, some riders make better efforts than others to get to the pits - Scott thwaites was ambling along in no hurry at all, he must have missed loads of laps, then had a lap to get sorted out, while otehrs trotted in. Something that needs tightening up. My own feeling is get rid of laps out and if you have a problem, it's part of the game. This is what happens in most other countries I raced in over the years. That would take away all the nonsense and doubtless some efforts at bending the rules that goes on. Like I said before, who would be a commissaire, and why, when everyone else at the race thinks they know better? Just people who put a lot back into the sport, for no reward except helping the sport along - we should ask they do the best job possible, but accept that sometimes things go a bit wrong. Again, outside GB (and one or two other countries) the officials are greatly respected by teh riders and managers, here they sometimes must feel fair game!

 

[mudplugger]

Scott thwaites was ambling along in no hurry at all, he must have missed loads of laps, then had a lap to get sorted out, while otehrs trotted in.

Given how many laps Zac had out at Durham it would be no surpise if teams adopted a similar approach, otherwise they would be disadvantaged. As to the Thwaites case, he hit the barriers very hard and sustained physical damage, unlike those who puncture or have mechanicals, so no surprise he may have needed a bit of time to recover and wasnt able to run back to the pit. I was surprised he carried on.
Presumably laps out seeks to remove the luck element, but prevents the use of transponders. Because its 3 to count, you cannot remove lapped riders and the mix of ability in the Series makes lapping inevitable. This then creates problems with lapped riders being mixed in with non lapped riders and leads to incorrect results. If you argue that luck balances out over 8 races, then no laps out would be ok.

Agree the points re the very positive role comms perform.