Hi everyone,
I have recently acquired an old Triumph bicycle which I am now using to trundle around on and to ride when my children want to go out on their bikes.
Having a strong interest in classic cars (as well as a close relative having an old MG), that it is apparently a Triumph roadster appealed to my sense of humour. I know nothing about old bicycles aside from being familiar with a few of the brand names when I got this and so it has been a bit of a steep learning curve. I would be very grateful for your thoughts in confirming the age, as I am a bit OCD at times & would like to know for certain so I can ensure that any tweaks or improvements that may be required are all correct for the age. It is best described as being in oily rag / rolling restoration condition, and I am planning to tidy it up a bit, potentially even fully restore it.
It is a Raleigh built model, 23" frame, 26" wheels, full chain guard / chain case and rod brakes in green. However, it has been mucked about with in the past - what I can identify is:
However, assuming that the Raleigh frames themselves didn't change spec when rebadged, this frame has features which date it to much earlier, the earliest one being the brazed-on fitting for the gear cable pulley, which dates it to being pre 1960 (according to Sheldon Brown), when that mount was replaced by a clamp fitting.
Based on this 1956 Raleigh Dealer reference catalogue it matches with the models shown on page 190 (Roadster Tourist) if originally black, or if it has always been green (which I think is correct) then page 194 (Leamington if the Dynohub is original) or page 198 (Huntingdon Tourist, if the hub is not original). However it seems that Triumph used the model name 'Warwick' for an identical looking machine in 1957 and 1958.
So I think it is definately later than 1954 (due to the badge saying Nottingham & thus Raleigh built so post the takeover), and pre 1960 due to the brazed gear pulley fitting. This is as far as I have been able to confirm for certain from hours searching online, on top of the time spent going through all the data on Sheldon Brown's and Kurt Kaminer's websites.
However, there are a couple of things that I am confused by. Firstly, the frame number doesn't match with anything I can find in the relevant pages on the Sheldon Brown or Kurt Kaminer websites (or anywhere else either). My understanding from what I have been reading is that all Raleigh built (as opposed to just Raleigh badged) bikes used the same frames across equivalent models (various parts books seem to show this too - 1950 and 1955) and so presumably used the same serial numbering system, as it would make little sense if the bare frames were fabricated & brazed on completely different production lines. All the serial number info though is for Raleigh, and I have searched for Triumph info for this era but without any success. However seeing Kurt Kaminer calls the Convention 3 format which he says is largely unidentified makes me wonder if at that point, Raleigh were trying to introduce a different system / coding to make a Raleigh or Rudge or Humber or Triumph etc bare frame be distinguishable purely from its serial number? The only number I can find on my frame is at the top of the seat lug, and it is five numerals (not all are legible) followed by 'TH' underneath. This format matches with the info I have found on this 1955 (dated according to the front & rear hubs) Triumph Jack of Clubs which has an identical serial coding format as mine, but about 20,000 later. Thus I am thinking that the perhaps the two numerals denote the brand of the bicycle (in this case TriumpH), which correlates with his statement that 'R' was always the first numeral on Raleighs using that format. If that is indeed the case, and based on the date of that Jack of Clubs, would it be fair to conclude that my bicycle is also 1955? Or is this all just a bit far fetched?
Lastly, there is something strange about the chaincase, which does not match any of the documentation from that era that I have found (various Raleigh parts books etc online). The main body of the chaincase looks like it could be original (or at least on the frame during the repaint). However when sourcing a replacement rear access panel as that was missing, it appears that mine is slightly different compared to the vast majority of Raleigh built bike I can find info on. Visually all are the same, but the way it attaches means that the first panel (& most commonly available) I bought didn't have the right style mounts due to the way it bolts on. On mine, the lower machine screw is forward of the panel join, going through the main case first, and the thread is on part of the cover - as per the pic lower down on this page of a repro item. The vast majority have the lower machine screw behind the panel join (the fixing next to the 'N' of neatly in this image ), with the female thread being part of a lug on the main casing. There appears to be no correlation between the version and the dating either - where I have been able to confirm that style mounting (four Raleighs dating 1950 through to 1956, a 1957 Triumph, a 1953 Churchill and a few unknown age used casings being sold for spares) there have been so many more of the same and other years with the other style mounting. Is this something that the experts are aware of, and may help identify the age of a bicycle, or is it simply that Raleigh had two different subcontractors who supplied a slightly different item to the same basic design?
Anyhow, trying to work out the year of my machine has been bugging me (not at all obvious is it?!?), and so apologies for my ramblings... Hopefully it makes sense (just writing this helped me organise my thoughts), and perhaps some it may be of use to others trying to ascertain the year of their bicycles where the usual sources don't have the answers, so your thoughts on the above would be very appreciated and thank you for reading this far!
I have recently acquired an old Triumph bicycle which I am now using to trundle around on and to ride when my children want to go out on their bikes.
Having a strong interest in classic cars (as well as a close relative having an old MG), that it is apparently a Triumph roadster appealed to my sense of humour. I know nothing about old bicycles aside from being familiar with a few of the brand names when I got this and so it has been a bit of a steep learning curve. I would be very grateful for your thoughts in confirming the age, as I am a bit OCD at times & would like to know for certain so I can ensure that any tweaks or improvements that may be required are all correct for the age. It is best described as being in oily rag / rolling restoration condition, and I am planning to tidy it up a bit, potentially even fully restore it.
It is a Raleigh built model, 23" frame, 26" wheels, full chain guard / chain case and rod brakes in green. However, it has been mucked about with in the past - what I can identify is:
- Repainted (badly) at least once - possibly twice as there is black paint under the green in some places, and a different shade of green is the base colour in others, but based on the areas around the badge and transfer on rear mudguard (the only remaining transfer), it appears that it was originally green (maybe whoever did it started a repaint in black, then thought better & went back to green?).
- There is a Raleigh heron front light bracket fitted instead of the correct Triumph 'T' one - this presumably requires headstock disassembly to remove / refit?
- At least one wheel is not original as the rear has what appears to be a stainless rim under the paint (could possibly be chrome but there's no sign of any pitting) whereas the front is a painted steel rim. Both wheels were black when acquired by the previous owner, who got as far as repainting the rear rim in silver to tidy it up before I expressed an interest in it.
- The three speed trigger is a style that dates from about 1971 through to the mid '70s according to this.
However, assuming that the Raleigh frames themselves didn't change spec when rebadged, this frame has features which date it to much earlier, the earliest one being the brazed-on fitting for the gear cable pulley, which dates it to being pre 1960 (according to Sheldon Brown), when that mount was replaced by a clamp fitting.
Based on this 1956 Raleigh Dealer reference catalogue it matches with the models shown on page 190 (Roadster Tourist) if originally black, or if it has always been green (which I think is correct) then page 194 (Leamington if the Dynohub is original) or page 198 (Huntingdon Tourist, if the hub is not original). However it seems that Triumph used the model name 'Warwick' for an identical looking machine in 1957 and 1958.
So I think it is definately later than 1954 (due to the badge saying Nottingham & thus Raleigh built so post the takeover), and pre 1960 due to the brazed gear pulley fitting. This is as far as I have been able to confirm for certain from hours searching online, on top of the time spent going through all the data on Sheldon Brown's and Kurt Kaminer's websites.
However, there are a couple of things that I am confused by. Firstly, the frame number doesn't match with anything I can find in the relevant pages on the Sheldon Brown or Kurt Kaminer websites (or anywhere else either). My understanding from what I have been reading is that all Raleigh built (as opposed to just Raleigh badged) bikes used the same frames across equivalent models (various parts books seem to show this too - 1950 and 1955) and so presumably used the same serial numbering system, as it would make little sense if the bare frames were fabricated & brazed on completely different production lines. All the serial number info though is for Raleigh, and I have searched for Triumph info for this era but without any success. However seeing Kurt Kaminer calls the Convention 3 format which he says is largely unidentified makes me wonder if at that point, Raleigh were trying to introduce a different system / coding to make a Raleigh or Rudge or Humber or Triumph etc bare frame be distinguishable purely from its serial number? The only number I can find on my frame is at the top of the seat lug, and it is five numerals (not all are legible) followed by 'TH' underneath. This format matches with the info I have found on this 1955 (dated according to the front & rear hubs) Triumph Jack of Clubs which has an identical serial coding format as mine, but about 20,000 later. Thus I am thinking that the perhaps the two numerals denote the brand of the bicycle (in this case TriumpH), which correlates with his statement that 'R' was always the first numeral on Raleighs using that format. If that is indeed the case, and based on the date of that Jack of Clubs, would it be fair to conclude that my bicycle is also 1955? Or is this all just a bit far fetched?
Lastly, there is something strange about the chaincase, which does not match any of the documentation from that era that I have found (various Raleigh parts books etc online). The main body of the chaincase looks like it could be original (or at least on the frame during the repaint). However when sourcing a replacement rear access panel as that was missing, it appears that mine is slightly different compared to the vast majority of Raleigh built bike I can find info on. Visually all are the same, but the way it attaches means that the first panel (& most commonly available) I bought didn't have the right style mounts due to the way it bolts on. On mine, the lower machine screw is forward of the panel join, going through the main case first, and the thread is on part of the cover - as per the pic lower down on this page of a repro item. The vast majority have the lower machine screw behind the panel join (the fixing next to the 'N' of neatly in this image ), with the female thread being part of a lug on the main casing. There appears to be no correlation between the version and the dating either - where I have been able to confirm that style mounting (four Raleighs dating 1950 through to 1956, a 1957 Triumph, a 1953 Churchill and a few unknown age used casings being sold for spares) there have been so many more of the same and other years with the other style mounting. Is this something that the experts are aware of, and may help identify the age of a bicycle, or is it simply that Raleigh had two different subcontractors who supplied a slightly different item to the same basic design?
Anyhow, trying to work out the year of my machine has been bugging me (not at all obvious is it?!?), and so apologies for my ramblings... Hopefully it makes sense (just writing this helped me organise my thoughts), and perhaps some it may be of use to others trying to ascertain the year of their bicycles where the usual sources don't have the answers, so your thoughts on the above would be very appreciated and thank you for reading this far!
(who has an unhealthy interest in gear levers)
