These apparently senseless straight front fork blades.

[TheCyclingRooster]

Hi to you all out there. Call me old fashioned,call me behind the times,call me 'a reluctant to change',I still ride traditional Vittoria Leather Cycling Shoes and Nail on Plates and my Marcel Berthet Lyotard platform pedals. Call me what you like, but can some one please explain why the move to front fork blades that have no forward flick on them. I come from the days of a pronounced forward rake/curve in the lower region of fork blades. They were without doubt less severe on the wrists and arms/shoulders in general and therefore offered a much more comfortable ride. My old 1937 Hetchins Curly (Vibrant Triangle) track frame had less of a curve blade and was late used on the road with the drop-outs changed and the stays opened out to take a 5speed block. It was an acceptable ride, even on long 120miles+runs out. My Bianchi (ID image) and my Claud Butler Levante are quite straight by old standards. But hey, Come on Alfie-what's it all about ?.

 

[Globalti]

Greetings and respect for your obvious credentials as a cyclist. I guess after so many miles your body has become accustomed to the ride and you would find a modern carbon bike irritatingly springy or lacking in feedback. For myself as a returnee to cycling at the age of 32 (now aged 55) I know I wouldn't have done it if I hadn't stumbled across my first ever mountain bike in a shop window; it was the easy ride, the comfort and the gearing that got me off my motorbike and back into cycling and changed my life radically. About 20 years later I rode my first ever carbon bike, for a while I had been wondering what all the fuss was about until I actually tried one and my life changed for a second time. Had you told me 23 years ago that the entire county of Lancashire would be within cycling distance I'd have laughed at you but now my cycling horizon has expanded to the borders and beyond.

I did have the occasional dalliance with cycling back in the old days but I always found the bikes too heavy or too uncomfortable. Cycling is enjoying a massive resurgence in popularity and it's inventions like mountain bikes and carbon fibre that are making it possible for average Joes like me.

Where abouts are you in West Lancs? Want to try my carbon sportiff bike?

 

[tyred]

I have to agree with the OP. It's why I prefer old steel bikes. I can ride them in comfort on the poorly surfaced roads around here. I have tried a few modern bikes but they all had horrible vibrations through the bars. I see people putting two layers of tape on the bars, or even putting gel pads under it. There is something wrong if this is necessary. My Viscount has thin cotton tape with no padding and I find it super comfortable.

/* cheapskate mode on /*

Very nice old steel frames can be found lying under hedges or in people's coal shed and can be bought for pennies if your lucky which is a further advantage in my book. Also half the fun is rebuilding it.

/* cheapskate mode off /*

 

[TheCyclingRooster]

Greetings and respect for your obvious credentials as a cyclist. I guess after so many miles your body has become accustomed to the ride and you would find a modern carbon bike irritatingly springy or lacking in feedback. For myself as a returnee to cycling at the age of 32 (now aged 55) I know I wouldn't have done it if I hadn't stumbled across my first ever mountain bike in a shop window; it was the easy ride, the comfort and the gearing that got me off my motorbike and back into cycling and changed my life radically. About 20 years later I rode my first ever carbon bike, for a while I had been wondering what all the fuss was about until I actually tried one and my life changed for a second time. Had you told me 23 years ago that the entire county of Lancashire would be within cycling distance I'd have laughed at you but now my cycling horizon has expanded to the borders and beyond.

I did have the occasional dalliance with cycling back in the old days but I always found the bikes too heavy or too uncomfortable. Cycling is enjoying a massive resurgence in popularity and it's inventions like mountain bikes and carbon fibre that are making it possible for average Joes like me.

Where abouts are you in West Lancs? Want to try my carbon sportiff bike?

Hi Globalti. Thank you for your greeting & salutations. Thank you for the kind offer of a ride on a feather weight cycle. My Bianchi & Claud Butler Levante only weigh in at 10.5kgs & 10kgs respectively. I would have a great deal of difficulty riding any bike without the modification that I have done to my Bianchi & my Claud Butler Levante. I have had a total left knee replacement,as a consequence and exacerbated by a 23&1/2" inside leg measurement I have fitted the bikes with 130mm crank arms to enable me to achieve the full circulatory movement of the pedals. Carbon frames & forks are an extravagance for a pensioner that did not retain the Silver Spoon in my mouth,a Silver Tongue at times,I have been told.
Just for the record,I live in the old Tawd Bridge part of UpHolland,near the end of Ormskirk Road & Spencers Lane.

 

[TheCyclingRooster]

I have to agree with the OP. It's why I prefer old steel bikes. I can ride them in comfort on the poorly surfaced roads around here. I have tried a few modern bikes but they all had horrible vibrations through the bars. I see people putting two layers of tape on the bars, or even putting gel pads under it. There is something wrong if this is necessary. My Viscount has thin cotton tape with no padding and I find it super comfortable.

/* cheapskate mode on /*

Very nice old steel frames can be found lying under hedges or in people's coal shed and can be bought for pennies if your lucky which is a further advantage in my book. Also half the fun is rebuilding it.

/* cheapskate mode off /*

Hi tyred. Yes spot on. My old 1937 20.5" Hetchins Curly (Vibrant Triangle) originally built as a track frame and then I had road ends put in and the stays widened to take a 5speed block was a fabulous ride. It was on Sprints & Tubs with all of the lightweight gear of the day including Campagnolo bar end changers,Mafac centre pull & levers. I stand corrected,but it only weighed 22lbs or 23lbs old money,10.5/11kgs. This was with a double chain-ring & a 5speed block.

 

[samid]

To the OP: The rake previously achieved by bending the steel forks is now accomplished by forks coming out at an angle from the crown. So the resulting geometry can easily be the same. As for the cushioning supposedly achieved by the bends - some people insist that a traditional steel forks does NOT flex in the bends when ridden. Instead, all cushioning occurs due to the steerer tube flexing. Or some such. This was discussed ad nauseum in the rec.bicycles.tech several years ago when it was still usenet rather than a google group, maybe still is.

Me, I ride old steel bikes with gracefully bent steel forks, simply because they look pretty. And have a Bates Cantiflex with a Diadrant forks hanging in the basement, waiting to be built up

 

[GrasB]

Straight forks are more aero & also stronger it seems. If you want to lay the finger on reduced vibration damping on modern bikes looking to the forks is the wrong place... try looking at 'oversized' handle bars. The difference between 26mm & 31.6mm bars of the same design wrapped with the same type of tape is staggering, the compromise is how much you lose when pulling on the bars.

 

[asterix]

Anyone who doesn't believe that steel forks don't absorb the pumps should try riding over cobbles and watching the action! I'd be interested to compare the experience using a carbon fork but don't have the means.

The bends in steel forks were not intended to bend; what they do is offset the hub from the line of the steering column and thus the fork is a spring as well as a strut. It seems to me that carbon forks "coming out at an angle from the crown" and with an aerofoil section are less likely to be 'springy' and all the stress is concentrated at one point.

I will never own a bike with carbon forks until they are proven to be as reliable as steel forks. Steel forks are superb pieces of engineering.

 

[fossyant]

They all still have forward rake. Even some of the 90's steel forks that were 'straight' had rake.

 

[GrasB]

Anyone who doesn't believe that steel forks don't absorb the pumps should try riding over cobbles and watching the action! I'd be interested to compare the experience using a carbon fork but don't have the means

Been the done that. Straight cheap aluminium forks with 26mm 'bars are noticeably more comfortable than curved steel with 31.8mm 'bars on cobbles, pot holes & very rough tarmac. So I don't really believe the forks have much to do with it because experience tells me that the 'bars are a much more important.

 

[TheCyclingRooster]

To the OP: The rake previously achieved by bending the steel forks is now accomplished by forks coming out at an angle from the crown. So the resulting geometry can easily be the same. As for the cushioning supposedly achieved by the bends - some people insist that a traditional steel forks does NOT flex in the bends when ridden. Instead, all cushioning occurs due to the steerer tube flexing. Or some such. This was discussed ad nauseum in the rec.bicycles.tech several years ago when it was still usenet rather than a google group, maybe still is.

Me, I ride old steel bikes with gracefully bent steel forks, simply because they look pretty. And have a Bates Cantiflex with a Diadrant forks hanging in the basement, waiting to be built up

Hi samid. Toronto,a wonderful part of the world. A lady friend of mine has family in Kingston and friends in Toronto. The CN Tower is awesome.
We are due a visit back,hopefully in The Fall and before the weather turns.
A very good friend of mine back in the 60's rode a Bates;can you begin to imagine the looks never mind the comments with my Curly Hetchins and his Bates out on the same run ?.
I wonder if anyone has asked the Prof's of cycling & engineering technology how a steerer tube that is only 130/145mm long and secured between the upper & lower races can flex ?. The fork blades are brazed into the fork crown lugs,any flexing of the blades would be absorbed by the union of the blades/crown. Even with the modern lug-less steel or aluminium fork the arch top to the fork blades meets the steerer tube on a weld,that tube is passed through the double wall of the fork arch. It that short length of tube coming out of the arch that carries the brake caliper.
The carbon fork on my Claud is enclosed at the point of the steerer endt,with only a small diameter hole beneath. The brake caliper is secured through the double walled arch/steerer tube concealed end.The steerer is still between upper & lower races,how can it flex?.
I used to notice how much forward & backward flexing the older curved fork blade did in cobbles in the 60's. I used to ride 14miles into work,there was a 1 mile stretch of cobbles that made some of the Paris-Roubaix cobbles look like a skating rink,I kid you not. Smith Street/Great Homer Street,Liverpool was notorious for the cobble lined pothole effect that graced the surface.
We also were privileged to have two very steep gradients near by that in the early days were also cobbled,they were Fairy Street & Haverlock Street. Haverlock Street was steeper than Fairy street (only just),it was necessary to put hand rails up like on a staircase. Fairy Street was conquerable (just),but Haverlock Street was a 'Chain Breaker'.

 

[MrHappyCyclist]

It seems to me that carbon forks "coming out at an angle from the crown" and with an aerofoil section are less likely to be 'springy' and all the stress is concentrated at one point.
I will never own a bike with carbon forks until they are proven to be as reliable as steel forks. Steel forks are superb pieces of engineering.

The carbon aero-blades on my Dawes hybrid come out from the head in line with the steerer and have a beautiful sweeping curve down to the drop-outs. I do agree that those straight forks that turn a corner into the steerer look ugly if nothing else.

 

[raindog]

They all still have forward rake. Even some of the 90's steel forks that were 'straight' had rake.

+1
there's your answer - simple.

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

It seems to me Dave Moulton's take on the subject of rake and trail, especially in relation to bikes before the 60's, is quite relevant to this interesting discussion. His comments on wheelbase/geometry are probably apt.

Damon Rinard at Harris did some forks deflection tests, that and Sheldon's take on features for comfort seem to suggest that forks have secondary effects on comfort, except perhaps in relation to high frequency vibration.

But ime there is something magic about the "twang" provided by a decent steel bike - am not even sure how to describe it!

 

[dellzeqq]

I've ridden both curved steel and straight carbon. There's no comparison. Carbon is by far the most comfortable. When you go over cobbles on steel forks they go shiver and quiver and quake. When you go over cobbles on carbon forks they just say 'thankyou Master' in the style of the late, great Fenella Fielding. There is no resonance. Just the most delightful damping effect.