There seems to be no thought put into this...

[DCBassman]

Another glitch in the public transport system. Every new set of rolling stock seems to have fewer bike spaces. Not terribly joined-up, is it?
Harrumph...

 

[Oldhippy]

UK is so stupidly backwards with integrated transport. The point has been proven time and time again in other countries but the political will is not there sadly.

 

[mjr]

Officially, the old Ipswich-London InterCity trains (Class 90 locomotive with Mark 3 coaches) had a bike capacity of 6 and the replacement Class 745/0 new InterCity trains match that.

However, as the old trains had their bike spaces in a non-passenger area, it could be overloaded if crew were willing. The new trains cannot because it would block a passenger evacuation route. In theory, they could have replaced a coach on the old trains with another van but did they ever?

The related Class 745/1 Stansted Express trains have 18 bike spaces but no buffet or tables for 4. If they wanted to, Greater Anglia could swap those with the InterCity 745/0 for the weekend and probably get close to the capacity of an overloaded old train.

 

[Drago]

It's an outrage really in this modern era of climatw change and dangerous pollution.

On the other hand, if the rail firms thought they cohld make more money out of supplying bike facilities instead of ramming the space full of seats then im sure they would. They're a business whose sole raison d'etre is the bottom line on the balance sheet. Sadly, the bike racks clearly don't make more money than seats, so they don't prioritise them.

Its time that successive governments of all stripe grew a pair and started to force fail firms to do so, even if it means paying them. They chuck money away on electric car chargers so lazy fat self-entitled people can carry on being lazy and self-entitled and get even fatter, litter the landscape with their cars and fill the air with particulates, but don't seem nearly so keen to promote a genuinely clean mofe of transport. Hell, and our PM is a cyclist himself, so imagine how bad it would be if a non cyclist were at the helm?

 

[DCBassman]

started to force fail firms to do so, even if it means paying them

I'm one of those 're-nationalise them' kinda guys...

 

[BrumJim]

I'm one of those 're-nationalise them' kinda guys...

Unlikely to make this issue any better. Given my experience with British Rail in the bad old days, likely to be very much worse.

Had the same issue with Northern at the end of the Coast-to-Coast event. Not enough space to bring bikes back from Whitby, and no consideration of how to improve it.

Ideally they could remove a few seats for the day, and put them back in again for the next day. However there is enough red tape and lack of common sense in the industry to make this economically unviable.

 

[Jenkins]

Officially, the old Ipswich-London InterCity trains (Class 90 locomotive with Mark 3 coaches) had a bike capacity of 6 and the replacement Class 745/0 new InterCity trains match that.

However, as the old trains had their bike spaces in a non-passenger area, it could be overloaded if crew were willing. The new trains cannot because it would block a passenger evacuation route. In theory, they could have replaced a coach on the old trains with another van but did they ever?

The related Class 745/1 Stansted Express trains have 18 bike spaces but no buffet or tables for 4. If they wanted to, Greater Anglia could swap those with the InterCity 745/0 for the weekend and probably get close to the capacity of an overloaded old train.

You've still got to get to Ipswich from the nearest rail station to Dunwich (Darsham or Saxmundham) and these are served by the 3 or 4 carriage Stadler units with only 6 bike spaces. The platforms on the East Suffolk Line are too short for the 12 carriage Stansted Express trains.

 

[Drago]

I'm one of those 're-nationalise them' kinda guys...

I am too, but just so long as any government does so accepts that it can't be done on a shoestring like British Fail had to.

 

[T4tomo]

Unlikely to make this issue any better. Given my experience with British Rail in the bad old days, likely to be very much worse.

Had the same issue with Northern at the end of the Coast-to-Coast event. Not enough space to bring bikes back from Whitby, and no consideration of how to improve it.

Ideally they could remove a few seats for the day, and put them back in again for the next day. However there is enough red tape and lack of common sense in the industry to make this economically unviable.

also only about 4 trains a day out of Whitby nowadays!

One of the major issues with A to B rides is the logistics of getting back to A, or getting to A having left your other transport at B, exacerbated by a "Mass" event rather than a few of you just doing a ride.

 

[mjr]

You've still got to get to Ipswich from the nearest rail station to Dunwich (Darsham or Saxmundham) and these are served by the 3 or 4 carriage Stadler units with only 6 bike spaces. The platforms on the East Suffolk Line are too short for the 12 carriage Stansted Express trains.

Selective Door Opening could work around that in most cases (sometimes crossing or signal positions prevent it) but bikes were banned from the East Suffolk Line on DD weekend for years already, so riders already had to get themselves to Ipswich and this has not been made worse by the new trains, unlike the OP

I agree with @Drago. While bikes travel free and there is no legal requirement to help decarbonise events like this, why would the private train operators hire in a special train or go through the palaver of agreeing temporary seat removals with the "rolling stock companies" (banks and so on) that own their trains?

 

[BrumJim]

I am too, but just so long as any government does so accepts that it can't be done on a shoestring like British Fail had to.

Or spending based on political considerations rather than operational ones.

 

[BrumJim]

I agree with @Drago. While bikes travel free and there is no legal requirement to help decarbonise events like this, why would the private train operators hire in a special train or go through the palaver of agreeing temporary seat removals with the "rolling stock companies" (banks and so on) that own their trains?

Dont' think the problem is the rolling stock companies. It is the train operators.

Let us imagine that an extra 50 cyclists use the train due to the changes. Each one buys a £50 ticket (random figure). The total extra income would therefore be £2,500. I can guarantee you that the risk assessment work for removing enough seats for 50 bikes for the day would be well in excess of that figure.

So either a central body generates a once-off risk assessment showing that removing seats for one day, subject to there being no big football matches in the area (cycle area occupied by people standing nose-to-nose instead), and every train operator can use it, or the train operator regards it as a loss-leading publicity exercise, the benefits of which would be very difficult to measure.

 

[icowden]

Let us imagine that an extra 50 cyclists use the train due to the changes. Each one buys a £50 ticket (random figure). The total extra income would therefore be £2,500. I can guarantee you that the risk assessment work for removing enough seats for 50 bikes for the day would be well in excess of that figure.

Whilst I agree with the above, this statement suggests that it's more than 50 cyclists.

Abellio Greater Anglia said: "Last year we carried several hundred bikes on trains which are not designed to carry many bikes. This made it uncomfortable for other customers and caused a number of problems including delaying services and inconveniencing other rail passengers".

So lets say it's 300 cyclists. Ticket price is £46. So that's £13,800. Is that becoming any more cost effective?
If not - how about a special ticket - £46 per person and £10 per bike. £16,800. Limit it to one train say at 11:00.

It was cost effective enough previously:-

On the Sunday, up to 50 pre-booked bikes will be allowed on the Ipswich service, for which Abellio Greater Anglia is able to put in a special timetable and give a longer station stop to load the bikes. This won't be possible for riders going to London on Saturday, however.

 

[rogerzilla]

We don't pay to put bikes on trains. We get what we pay for.

 

[fossyant]

There are no seats by the third station on our commuter line. Standing only, rammed in like sardines for £8 a day for 10 miles each way

You can only get a bike space from the first station - ie the train is full.