The Pinion gearbox.

[simongt]

A lot has appeared on YouTube ref the above. Certainly not cheap and needs a specific frame for it to fit on, similar weight to a Rohloff hub, but appears by many to be the business for all sorts of riding; all parts sealed inside, chain or belt drive, designed by former Porche engineers, good gear step ratios etc..
But Shimano are also trialling a centrally mounted gearbox as well, but rather more complex, electronic change and three chains to operate the system using two cassettes. Hmm.
Thoughts - ?

 

[raleighnut]

I wonder if it's as good as the Millyard design,


View: https://youtu.be/S39oR_7Vwf8

 

[dan_bo]

I'll consider it when it's as cheap and efficient as a derailleur.

 

[simongt]

Certainly not as cheap as a derailleur system, but as with shaft drive, belt drive, hub gears etc., if speed & efficiency aren't your god, what's the drawback if you want an easy to maintain system on your bike - ?

 

[Drago]

Two words

Cost. Effective.

Until it conclusively provides a measurable performance advantage over cheaper, technically inferior but better developed solutions, it will not make an impact. The whole point of a bicycle is simplicity, and if youre going to deviate from that then it needs to be better than anything elese anywhere ever of you may as well go home.

Its been done before and never been more than the most limited of niche in appeal. It'll be done many times in the fiture, but without a significant breakthrough in design or concept then the matket will carry on as they are.

 

[dmorgorg]

A lot has appeared on YouTube ref the above. Certainly not cheap and needs a specific frame for it to fit on, similar weight to a Rohloff hub, but appears by many to be the business for all sorts of riding; all parts sealed inside, chain or belt drive, designed by former Porche engineers, good gear step ratios etc..
But Shimano are also trialling a centrally mounted gearbox as well, but rather more complex, electronic change and three chains to operate the system using two cassettes. Hmm.
Thoughts - ?

Re: Rohloff. I have a Rohloff hub on my Surly Troll (a trohloff/trohloff), no issue, (virtually) no maintenance, easy as pie. Very dependable and, if you put on a lot of miles, quite economical. I read a review from an exceptional tourer (600,000 km), after covering 75,000 with a Rohloff. He said he'd have had to replace his derailleur many times in that distance considering the terrain he'd travelled so the Rohloff was actually cheaper (although he had been promo-ed the Rohloff) and it felt nicely run in. (Disclaimer: I'm not 100% sure about the distances quoted above. I think it was miles, not km, but I'd rather underestimate than risk overstating). But I don't ride the trohloff any more - see below.
Re: Pinion. This summer, I took delivery of a Sonder Broken Road hardtail with a P18 (Pinion 18-speed) gearbox. OMG! Love it to pieces. This will be my post-Covid bumpy toured but so far, on trails, gravel, and tarmac, it feels great. I'm very happy. And changing gear without pedalling (technical downhill, traffic lights, ...), as with the Rohloff, is sweet.
Re: Shimano. Looks complicated. Electronic shifting might be more suited to road riding than extended touring. I'm good for now - and, closing in on 70, am probably good forever )

 

[simongt]

I think some folk are missing the point of such developments. Yes, they aren't as efficient, but not all cyclists worship at that alter. Typically, a properly maintained hub / enclosed gear is about 10% less efficient; 86% against 96% than a derailleur. To cyclists who don't race or time trial, that's hardly noticeable, especially when you factor in a heavier bike or fatter tyres. And many are happy as long as their bike does what they need it to do reliably with minimum maintenance. So hub gear, shaft or belt drive do have their place in the cycling world.

 

[Deleted member 26715]

Holy thread resurrection Batman

Caught these on Utube last night, looks great, I hate to think how much though, never seen them before but this thread proves they've been around a while.


View: https://youtu.be/-MBaP4PZpKY


View: https://youtu.be/HuazPDsnq-I

 

[Pale Rider]

Looks the bizzo.

Bike makers usually slap a belt on the Pinion partly because it helps their weight comparison - the belt is much lighter than a chain.

The belt is a little less efficient, thought to be because it 'sticks' more to the sprocket teeth when being unwound.

The Pinion gearbox is also slightly less efficient than a properly adjuster derailer.

Neither is this aero/weight weenie roadie nonsense - you can feel the extra drag.

In this application that will be compensated for by the motor, but the bike will use a bit more battery power than the crank drive/chain ebikes we have at present.

Fine if you only ever ride well within the battery's capacity, but I think all ebikers have come close to running out or run out of juice at least once.

 

[Tom B]

That PCB worries me. Looks poorly isolated from vibration and what not, ill put money on that being the failure point.

Its not for me, but i can see the sense of it for some.

My issues with gearbox (and ebikes) is cost.

 

[numbnuts]

K.I.S.S comes to mind, why make things complicated, if it ain't bust......

 

[Deleted member 26715]

My issues with gearbox (and ebikes) is cost.

Yes, there was no mention of that, but I can see it being expensive

K.I.S.S comes to mind, why make things complicated, if it ain't bust......

It does have large advantages over chain & derailleur

 

[Paul_Smith SRCC]

I have had a couple of customers choose a Van Nicholas bike with Pinion, out of interest I asked them what was their motivation behind having that transmission on their wish list, especially over a Rohloff system on similar a styled bike.

As you'd expect they referenced 18 versus 14 gears (with a larger range) and longer warranty but the main desire was driven by the fact that both were engineer's and they simply appreciated what went into the Pinion system, the visual especially appealed; to them it looked like a work of art. By the same token I know some have chosen a Rohloff set up in part as the visual of the Pinion system was not to their taste.

I have found those who value weight saving will normally choose Rohloff, where as the two who chose Pinion were using the bike to tour with camping equipment and the weight penalty of the Pinion to them personally was not a deterrent.