TFL HGV/Cyclist Vid
- Thread starter Origamist
- Start date
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summerdays
Cycling in the sun
- Location
- Bristol
Like that video - especially some of the moving blind spot diagrams (as opposed to the stationary ones you often see).
Davidc
Guru
- Location
- Somerset UK
Very good. The advice on the page looks good too.
How can the message(s) be got out to a wide audience?
How can the message(s) be got out to a wide audience?
OP
OP
Origamist
Legendary Member
This is the best video I have seen. The dialogue format using cyclists and LGV drivers worked pretty well (a continuation of the dual approach used in TFL’s “Ignorant Cyclists, Ignorant Lorry Drivers” booklet - I have a pdf, if anyone wants a copy) and is only a bit forced and trite in places.
The graphics dealing swept paths and blind spots (large swathes of road space) were good, but they could have been better. I particularly liked the comparison between artics and rigids and the large inviting gap on the inside.
The advice is generally good throughout – not hectoring, but conversational and clear. That said, I’d have preferred them not to have mentioned this and this:
"It's no one else's responsibility ultimately, to make sure that you're safe, it's your responsibility and I felt that very keenly."
“If the lights have only just turned red I can feel confident of pulling in front of this LGV but I will double check that he's seen me and I've made my presence felt.”
Here they could have mentioned overtaking and not undertaking (which is implied), or the need to ensure the ASL is clear before you attempt to reach the front of the queue. They also mention taking a “dominant” position in the ASL reservoir - they could have described what they meant here (i e a good 3-4 feet from the road edge). The guidance about making yourself seen to the driver is important and well made.
Understandably, the scenes are not shot in heavy commuting traffic (where’s the ASL encroachment?) and there’s no sign of LGVs cutting corners – the manoeuvres are all text book stuff, but it still captures the problems that cyclists and LGV drivers face. IMO, the nub of the problem is here though:
“Some of the streets within the city are not going to be built for LGV's, so it can be quite a challenge sometimes.”
I’d have liked to have seen them examine the “follow my leader” phenomenon whereby cyclists seemingly cede responsibility to the cyclist ahead at junctions and I’d have liked to have heard some warnings about using feeder lanes in these situations (don’t suspend your judgement because of some paint on the road). No mention of railings in the 5min vid
Whilst it is aimed at cyclist behaviour and best practice (no mention of left hooks, responsibility of the freight operators etc) it does promote mutual understanding and hopefully it will get thousands of hits...
I understand the longer version is aimed more at LGV drivers...
I’ll shut up now as I’m boring myself.
The graphics dealing swept paths and blind spots (large swathes of road space) were good, but they could have been better. I particularly liked the comparison between artics and rigids and the large inviting gap on the inside.
The advice is generally good throughout – not hectoring, but conversational and clear. That said, I’d have preferred them not to have mentioned this and this:
"It's no one else's responsibility ultimately, to make sure that you're safe, it's your responsibility and I felt that very keenly."
“If the lights have only just turned red I can feel confident of pulling in front of this LGV but I will double check that he's seen me and I've made my presence felt.”
Here they could have mentioned overtaking and not undertaking (which is implied), or the need to ensure the ASL is clear before you attempt to reach the front of the queue. They also mention taking a “dominant” position in the ASL reservoir - they could have described what they meant here (i e a good 3-4 feet from the road edge). The guidance about making yourself seen to the driver is important and well made.
Understandably, the scenes are not shot in heavy commuting traffic (where’s the ASL encroachment?) and there’s no sign of LGVs cutting corners – the manoeuvres are all text book stuff, but it still captures the problems that cyclists and LGV drivers face. IMO, the nub of the problem is here though:
“Some of the streets within the city are not going to be built for LGV's, so it can be quite a challenge sometimes.”
I’d have liked to have seen them examine the “follow my leader” phenomenon whereby cyclists seemingly cede responsibility to the cyclist ahead at junctions and I’d have liked to have heard some warnings about using feeder lanes in these situations (don’t suspend your judgement because of some paint on the road). No mention of railings in the 5min vid
Whilst it is aimed at cyclist behaviour and best practice (no mention of left hooks, responsibility of the freight operators etc) it does promote mutual understanding and hopefully it will get thousands of hits...
I understand the longer version is aimed more at LGV drivers...
I’ll shut up now as I’m boring myself.
tdr1nka
Taking the biscuit
- Location
- SE London, Bandit Country
How come the website says HGV and the vid says LGV?
It's sound advice but needs greater publicity.
It's sound advice but needs greater publicity.
OP
OP
Origamist
Legendary Member
Are you accusing TFL of a lack of consistency...!
They should use one or the other, or make it clear that both abbreviations refer to the same vehicle on the web page.
I still use HGV as LGV means "Light Goods Vehicle" to me. I'm trying to move with the times, hence my post above.
It did make BBC London news last night.
If every cyclist sent the link to every cyclist they knew - we might start to get somewhere...
They should use one or the other, or make it clear that both abbreviations refer to the same vehicle on the web page.
I still use HGV as LGV means "Light Goods Vehicle" to me. I'm trying to move with the times, hence my post above.
It did make BBC London news last night.
If every cyclist sent the link to every cyclist they knew - we might start to get somewhere...
tdr1nka
Taking the biscuit
- Location
- SE London, Bandit Country
I have very mixed feelings about TfL which I shall leave at the door.
Why it is not possible to simply say 'NEVER UNDERTAKE LONG VEHICLES, EVER.'
It makes the point to new cyclists.
I'd like to see a basic 'Cycle Craft' style 'Welcome to cycling in London' given away with every new bike sold to commuters.
Why it is not possible to simply say 'NEVER UNDERTAKE LONG VEHICLES, EVER.'
It makes the point to new cyclists.
I'd like to see a basic 'Cycle Craft' style 'Welcome to cycling in London' given away with every new bike sold to commuters.
OP
OP
Origamist
Legendary Member
tdr1nka said:
If you're in a bus lane you are likely to be undertaking HGVs (I mean LGVs) so I don't think you can be be quite that absolutist. However, at junctions it is certainly the safest advice.
A 30 or so page condensed Cyclecraft guide would be a great thing to give away at the point of sale.
At least it's a start.
I was in front of an LGV a few years back at lights and turned round actually to check my bag on the rack but the lorry driver obviously thought I was looking at him in a way he didn't like so when the lights changed he cut me up really badly whilst squeezing past me at a pinch point. Now when I check my bags/panniers etc I make it obvious that I'm not glaring at the driver behind. Can't win.
In some areas/situations eyeing somebody in a way that they deem "disrespectul/inappropriate/who you staring at" can cause a confrontational situation, it has to be carefully done, maybe by a polite hand acknowledgement.
I was in front of an LGV a few years back at lights and turned round actually to check my bag on the rack but the lorry driver obviously thought I was looking at him in a way he didn't like so when the lights changed he cut me up really badly whilst squeezing past me at a pinch point. Now when I check my bags/panniers etc I make it obvious that I'm not glaring at the driver behind. Can't win.
In some areas/situations eyeing somebody in a way that they deem "disrespectul/inappropriate/who you staring at" can cause a confrontational situation, it has to be carefully done, maybe by a polite hand acknowledgement.
OP
OP
Origamist
Legendary Member
A link to the video was sent to thousands of registered TFL users earlier today:
Dear
Transport for London has produced a new video to help cyclists and lorry drivers navigate London's busy roads - and each other - safely.
To see the video, please click here
More than half of cyclist deaths in London are caused by accidents with goods vehicles. Drivers can struggle to see you, especially if they're turning left and you're going straight ahead.
As a cyclist you can minimise your risk by making sure you are alert when passing or being passed by a goods vehicle.
If you have any thoughts or suggestions on how to improve cycling safety in London, please contact us by replying to this email.
Yours sincerely,
Kulveer Ranger
Mayor of London's Transport Director
I've emailed them asking when the longer version (aimed more at LGV drivers) will be available as too much emphasis is placed on cyclists in the shorter vid.
Dear
Transport for London has produced a new video to help cyclists and lorry drivers navigate London's busy roads - and each other - safely.
To see the video, please click here
More than half of cyclist deaths in London are caused by accidents with goods vehicles. Drivers can struggle to see you, especially if they're turning left and you're going straight ahead.
As a cyclist you can minimise your risk by making sure you are alert when passing or being passed by a goods vehicle.
If you have any thoughts or suggestions on how to improve cycling safety in London, please contact us by replying to this email.
Yours sincerely,
Kulveer Ranger
Mayor of London's Transport Director
I've emailed them asking when the longer version (aimed more at LGV drivers) will be available as too much emphasis is placed on cyclists in the shorter vid.
joolsybools
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Scotland
I was quite impressed with the video, it's pretty balanced for both sides although I agree with other posters that the message 'never ever undertake a lorry' is sound advice 
Has anyone from the right that's enough (commuting) thread seen it?
Has anyone from the right that's enough (commuting) thread seen it?
OP
OP
Origamist
Legendary Member
joolsybools said:I was quite impressed with the video, it's pretty balanced for both sides although I agree with other posters that the message 'never ever undertake a lorry' is sound advice
Has anyone from the right that's enough (commuting) thread seen it?
Sound advice to LGV drivers would be to not overtake cyclists on the approach to left turns and then cut across them -that is not mentioned in the film.
The video was posted in the "Time for Action" thread.
OP
OP
Origamist
Legendary Member
Freewheeler raises some good points here about the video:
http://crapwalthamforest.blogspot.com/2009/07/that-tfl-lorry-campaign.html
However, as there is "supposed" to be a second, longer video aimed at the haulage/freight industry, I'll hold my fire.
http://crapwalthamforest.blogspot.com/2009/07/that-tfl-lorry-campaign.html
However, as there is "supposed" to be a second, longer video aimed at the haulage/freight industry, I'll hold my fire.
summerdays
Cycling in the sun
- Location
- Bristol
My boss told me about the video... and I said I had seen it already - they were suprised and replied ... "its new only just out so you won't have". So thanks I managed to be ahead of the boss
