Stoopid Question, but...On-One 456 EVO...

[Zenroad]

Uh, duuuhhh...
I'm very close to buying an On-One 456 EVO steel frame, and I've suddenly taken note of the chain guide mounts at the bottom bracket. Are they removeable? If not, can I still install a triple crankset with a front derailleur? Or will those things be in the way? I've never had a frame with those things.

 

[Cubist]

A mate has a Ti 456. The chain guide mounts don't stop him running it triple, but occasionally the chain ships inboard and jams between the chainring and the tabs. One of these will stop that from happening. Check seat tube size (external diameter) before ordering.
http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/showpart.asp?part=DEDACHAJ200
@colinj

For the most clearance try a topswing mech

 

[Zenroad]

A mate has a Ti 456. The chain guide mounts don't stop him running it triple, but occasionally the chain ships inboard and jams between the chainring and the tabs. One of these will stop that from happening. Check seat tube size (external diameter) before ordering.
http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/showpart.asp?part=DEDACHAJ200
@colinj

For the most clearance try a topswing mech

Thank you, Cubist. I wish I could get an EVO frame without them. I hadn't really noticed them until recently. I've seen the frame only online. I wonder of there's anything I could mount to them that would prevent the chain from going down in there. Or maybe I can cut them off.

 

[Zenroad]

Thanks again, Cubist. The part you suggested wouldn't fit the EVO frame. Seattube is too small. But that's okay. Actually, I won't be putting the EVO through its offroad paces; I'm setting it up for an onroad (mostly) expedition, so the chain won't be bouncing around much. I wonder of your friend has his derailleur adjusted properly. Does his chain bounce off, or does it over-shift?

 

[Cubist]

Thanks again, Cubist. The part you suggested wouldn't fit the EVO frame. Seattube is too small. But that's okay. Actually, I won't be putting the EVO through its offroad paces; I'm setting it up for an onroad (mostly) expedition, so the chain won't be bouncing around much. I wonder of your friend has his derailleur adjusted properly. Does his chain bounce off, or does it over-shift?

The seat tube is 28.6, so the dog fang will fit. The chain can sometimes overshift under certain circumstances, even with a really well adjusted mech.

Colinj of this forum is a fan, and runs one on his road bike
http://www.slimmerandfitter.com/cycling/deda-dog-fang-chain-keeper-review/

 

[lulubel]

The seat tube is 28.6, so the dog fang will fit. The chain can sometimes overshift under certain circumstances, even with a really well adjusted mech.

Colinj of this forum is a fan, and runs one on his road bike
http://www.slimmerandfitter.com/cycling/deda-dog-fang-chain-keeper-review/

As do I. My steel seat tube IS too small for the dog fang, so I wrapped a piece of old inner tube around it first. Black frame, black dog fang, skinny, black road tube - no, it doesn't notice

Now that I've used one once, any new bike that I buy or build will have one.

 

[Zenroad]

The seat tube is 28.6, so the dog fang will fit. The chain can sometimes overshift under certain circumstances, even with a really well adjusted mech.

Colinj of this forum is a fan, and runs one on his road bike
http://www.slimmerandfitter.com/cycling/deda-dog-fang-chain-keeper-review/

28.6! Thank you, Cubist. I was looking at the wrong number. And thank you, lulubel, for chiming in. Would a dog fang still work with a triple crank and its tiny inner chainring? I'm actually wondering if there might be something I could attach to the guide mount that would serve the same purpose as the dog fang. I think I see threads inside the guide mount holes.

So the dog fang is the bomb, eh? I've never seen one. But I've also never seen a chain guide or a chain guide mount. We've only just recently come down from the trees here in the US. Truth be told, I'm not a hardcore off-roader. I use mtbs as on-road assault vehicles. And they make damned-good touring bikes.

I've been looking at pics of the EVO bottom bracket with its welded on guide mount, and it looks like I may be able to cut it off with my Dewalt 4 1/2" grinder cutting blade. (It's a brutal tool. Everyone should have one.) I'll eye-ball it when the frame arrives, which should be by the end of the month. Ordering it on the 20th (payday!). Build-up will take me the rest of the year as cash flow allows. I'll be posting pics.

Thanks again!

 

[lulubel]

28.6! Thank you, Cubist. I was looking at the wrong number. And thank you, lulubel, for chiming in. Would a dog fang still work with a triple crank and its tiny inner chainring?

Yes. You just have to position it so it's almost touching the chain when it's on the small ring. I think the idea is that if the chain overshifts, it can't drop onto the bottom bracket shell because the dog fang is there, so it lands on the dog fang instead, and the movement and tensioning of the chain as you pedal will pull it off the dog fang and back onto the small ring.

I haven't had the chain come off since I built the bike, so I assume it's doing its job.

 

[Zenroad]

Yes. You just have to position it so it's almost touching the chain when it's on the small ring. I think the idea is that if the chain overshifts, it can't drop onto the bottom bracket shell because the dog fang is there, so it lands on the dog fang instead, and the movement and tensioning of the chain as you pedal will pull it off the dog fang and back onto the small ring.

I haven't had the chain come off since I built the bike, so I assume it's doing its job.

Thanks, lulubel. I'm glad to hear it. I may try a dog fang. I'm glad you all told me about it. I was really unaware. I've had almost no problems with over-shifting.

 

[VamP]

I haven't had the chain come off since I built the bike, so I assume it's doing its job.

That's assuming chain coming off is otherwise a regular occurrence. I have had the chain come off once across my five bikes over the last year. During a particularly clumsy portage section of a CX race when I kicked it off. I have since shortened by one link and not had a recurrence, despite continually being a clumsy klutz, in my remounts particularly

 

[lulubel]

That's assuming chain coming off is otherwise a regular occurrence. I have had the chain come off once across my five bikes over the last year. During a particularly clumsy portage section of a CX race when I kicked it off. I have since shortened by one link and not had a recurrence, despite continually being a clumsy klutz, in my remounts particularly

The thing is, you don't know. It might be doing something, it might never have needed to do anything. But at least I know the chain won't fall off, get jammed behind the small ring, and leave my bike with nasty scratches.

I've dropped the chain off the small ring a couple of times on my MTB, but that's been a result of a very clumsy change both times, and I dropped it quite a lot when I got my first road bike. After taking it back to the lbs several times because I also had problems with it jamming when shifting from the big to middle rings, I finally took it to another lbs, they straightened the front derailleur, which had been put on crooked, and I never had the problem again.

The point of all that being, if your bike's set up correctly, and your changes are smooth, you shouldn't need it. But it can only take one clumsy change to make a mess of your frame, and unless you're counting every gram, the dog fang doesn't add any weight worth mentioning.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Deda Dog Fang is the mutts nuts fangs on triple equipped CX-ers and mtbs ime. So good in fact that some manufacturers are now fitting them as standard.

Chain full of mud can de-rail even on the most perfectly setup bike.

 

[VamP]

Deda Dog Fang is the mutts nuts fangs on triple equipped CX-ers and mtbs ime. So good in fact that some manufacturers are now fitting them as standard.

Chain full of mud can de-rail even on the most perfectly setup bike.

They do, my Bianchi road bike had it fitted from new. Didn't stop the FSA Vero chainset kicking off the chain every so often, although it is true it did stop the chain from hitting the frame. Once I replaced the Vero with Campag Centaur I never had another chain falling off incident.

Just reporting my experience, but I for one did not find the Dog Fang that much use, and now it sits at the bottom of my pile of redundant bike bits gathering dust. I think the problem with it is that it's quite soft, and when the chain whams it hard it flexes and fails to push the chain back in place. That or I just failed to understand how to position it correctly. Which is probable.

 

[Cubist]

@colinj will be along in a minute to tell us all how to fit them......

 

[ColinJ]

Just reporting my experience, but I for one did not find the Dog Fang that much use, and now it sits at the bottom of my pile of redundant bike bits gathering dust. I think the problem with it is that it's quite soft, and when the chain whams it hard it flexes and fails to push the chain back in place. That or I just failed to understand how to position it correctly. Which is probable.

I think you must have a Dog Fang lookalike? I have Deda Dog Fangs on all 3 of my bikes and they are made of a thick, solid plastic which doesn't flex. I have seen similar devices which are too flexy though.

@colinj will be along in a minute to tell us all how to fit them......

Here you go! (The closeup photo in my review shows how solid the Dog Fang is.)

The Fangs are not quite so effective with tiny inner rings on triples. The chain can get hooked up on the Fang, rather than slipping back onto the ring, but that is infinitely better than it getting terminally wedged in between the ring and the bottom bracket shell.

I found that with inner rings with 30 or more teeth, it is possible to adjust the Fang so the chain either slips back onto the ring by itself, or can be nudged back over with the front mech.