Steel frame heirarchy

[Steam Pig]

I've 90% commited myself to buying a Disc Trucker, and I've been looking at other touring/ "do it all" bikes, the trucker is made from 4130 cro mo, I wondered where this fits in the grand scheme of steel frames? I'm assuming something like 953 will be at or near the top and 520 neare the bottom. Different manufacturers tend to use different terminology to describe the same material. It's really confusing.
I gather the LHT and DT are used on remote tours because they require little specialist knowledge to repair.
I don't plan on touring round the world, maybe the Scottish Highlands (next year)

 

[fossyant]

4130 is the lower end stuff, but it's better than gas pipe.

Usually the higher the first digit, the higher the grade. The high end stuff needs special braising or welding conditions and is specialist work.

 

[Drago]

4130 material has almost identical mechanical properties to 531, and responds to heat treatment in a similar way. Not surprising, as the composition isn't terribly different.

The real difference occurs because 4130 is just the material specification, but 531 is a tubeset specification so applies not just to the material but to the construction of the tubes, butting, tube thickness etc.

In plain English, you can't generalise about 4130. The cheap stuff is ok, if lacklustre, but the better frames can be very good indeed.

 

[Citius]

4130 doesn't have much in common with 531 really. More in common with 501. 531 is mainly braze-only - 4130 can be TIG welded. Not much to say about 4130 really - better than HT tubing, not as good as some of the more lightweight steels. Perfectly good enough for a tourer though.

 

[Drago]

The manufacturing methods required may differ, but the mechanical characteristics are described here as "broadly similar"...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reynolds_531

You can Google the ductility, density and hardness characteristics of each yourself, and there isn't a great deal in it. Some folk get far too up themselves about the likes of 531, when there are many leads lauded blends of steel which give it a good run for less money,

 

[Citius]

I can't see anywhere in that link where it says that 531 is 'broadly similar' to 4130. Like I say, the main (big) difference is the preferred joining method. I'm not saying one is better than the other - but to say one is 'almost identical' to the other is technically inaccurate, that's all.

 

[Steam Pig]

4130 doesn't have much in common with 531 really. More in common with 501. 531 is mainly braze-only - 4130 can be TIG welded. Not much to say about 4130 really - better than HT tubing, not as good as some of the more lightweight steels. Perfectly good enough for a tourer though.

These are the models i've been looking at compred to the Disc Trucker

Ridgeback panorama deluxe 853 frame, similar components - too expensive
Jamis Aurora Elite 631 frame 105 components as opposed to deore, hybrid hydraulic brakes which I like a lot
Trek 520 frame 520, cheaper components

Recently seen, Spa Ti adventure, similar components but too expensive

The DT seems to tick all the boxes but the frame material is a bit "industrial", I love the Aurora but it may struggle with any off road stuations

 

[Cyclist33]

As a rider (and lover) of the Jamis Quest which is a 631 steel road bike (not a tourer though) I would recommend the Jamis.

 

[Moodyman]

I've ridden Reynolds 631, Tange Prestige and 4130. They're all comfy. I couldn't tell the difference between the different steels.

The geometry and the tyres made a much bigger difference though.

 

[Rickshaw Phil]

Just to throw a spanner in the works, is the Genesis Tour de Fer any good to you?: http://www.genesisbikes.co.uk/bikes/adventure/expedition/tour-de-fer

 

[Steam Pig]

Just to throw a spanner in the works, is the Genesis Tour de Fer any good to you?: http://www.genesisbikes.co.uk/bikes/adventure/expedition/tour-de-fer

I did kook at that, but what is Genesis Mjölnir Seamless Double-Butted Cromoly ? This is what I mean by different people calling the same thing by different names. Alivio geartrain I suppose is slightly below deore on the DT, also maybe a little out of it=s comfort zone off road, I still think I get more bang for my buck with the DT.

Thanks for the suggestion it is a viable option

 

[mustang1]

Does a higher grade of steel improve ride quality or just makes the frame lighter?

 

[Fab Foodie]

Does a higher grade of steel improve ride quality or just makes the frame lighter?

Depends what you mean by 'improve ride quality'. My 531 frames are generally softer, whippier and more comfortable than my 853 frame which is tighter, stiffer and more composed. With the 853 you really feel your effort translated into forward motion .... But you feel more bumps too.

 

[Fab Foodie]

@Steam Pig the Surly LHT has a long and good reputation as a touring bike and there's no reason that the DT is any different. Bikes designed for touring are meant to be softer, comfortable and weight is less of a factor. It's the nature of the beast.
If you need more 'performance' then lighter stiffer frames are available with less touring specific geometry too. Unless you have a big budget it's always a bit if a compromise.

Don't get too hung up on materials, ride a few and go for what feels good.

 

[Steam Pig]

Depends what you mean by 'improve ride quality'. My 531 frames are generally softer, whippier and more comfortable than my 853 frame which is tighter, stiffer and more composed. With the 853 you really feel your effort translated into forward motion .... But you feel more bumps too.

Comfort is at the top of my list but, I don't want anything so "spongy" it takes more effort (if you get my meaning)
TBH the DT is the only bike I can in my size that is in stock at the moment for me to try.
I may have a look at the tour de fer at Evans but 53cm is my top limit, (Yes, I'm a bit of a short4rse )