State cycles

[wafter]

*Disclaimer: Irritatingly only available on sensible terms in the US*

These came to my attention some time ago, but reading a recent review on Bike Rumour has piqued my interest again.

State are US-based brand selling (no-doubt far-eastern-sourced) budget-friendly fixed gear, road and "all road bikes" amongst other formats; those of interest being constructed from generic / unbranded 4130 chrome-moly steel.

While the frame material is unremarkable and standard groupsets budget (if well regarded), these bikes appear to offer fantastic value for the features on offer. For example the $899 all-road model ($450 for frame only) offers through-axles and flat mount disc brakes along with mounts everywhere and decent tyre clearance (45mm with 700c, 53mm with 650b). This is impressive considering Genesis want you to pay over £2k for a TA / flat mount capable Croix de Fer; with their lower-end stuff still hamstrung by QR wheels and IS caliper mounts.

Geometry looks relatively relaxed with ST and HT angles the same as my Genesis CdF, while reach is shorter and stack taller for the "M" size for a fairly unstretched, upright position. Frames and complete bikes are available in a range of finishes - IMO the most impressive being the "raw phosphate" option that exposes the fillet brazing on ancilliary mounts under a clear lacquer, much like the "black lacquer" finish offered by Brompton.

Unfortunately while State have a UK-facing website it appears they have no UK distributer and everything is shipped directly from the US. I was very tempted by a phosphor all road frame as the basis of a utility hack and while the £368 price quoted seemed keen, it nearly doubled when shipping costs were added

 

[Gunk]

they have no UK distributer

Perfect business opportunity for you!

 

[biggs682]

See the world still wants nothing fancy steel bikes at a fair price

 

[wafter]

Perfect business opportunity for you!

What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Drago]

They're making cycling great again!

 

[chriswoody]

When I bought my Kona Sutra LTD it came with a cheap chromoly steel frame. Kona's philosophie was contrary to what I'd come across before, namely build a good, but cheap frame and deck it out with expensive components, thereby keeping the overall cost to the consumer low.

I went straight from a Reynolds 531ST framed Dawes Galaxy to this bike and I must admit to being blown away by the frame. My initial scepticism was completely unfounded, it was stiff but lively soaking up all of the buzz and vibration from the trails with ease. I was running the same tires initially on the Kona as I was using on the Galaxy so I felt it was definitely a fair comparison. It certainly changed my view of not only unbranded Chromoly steel frames, but of. the Reynolds frame as well.

One point I would disagree on though, with your assessment of the State bike, is the Flat mount brake standard. In my view the IS mount on this bike is superior to flat mount. With IS mount's you can run a IS to Post mount converter which allows you to not only run any post mount brakes, but you can also easily change the size of your brakes easily. From an engineering point of view I find them much better than flat mount and I'm glad my bike has them because I was able to easily convert my front brake to 180mm rotors. If we're talking aesthetics though, I do agree they can look a bit messy compared to the more elegant flat mount.

Overall though they do look interesting bikes that look very similar to my Kona, albeit with a much more budget groupset and good value for money as you say.

 

[All uphill]

Id be very cautious of anything from State without being able to see it and try it first.

Coming up to 5 years ago I did up a State singlespeed bike. There's a thread on CC about it.

That bike had a 'sturdy' steel frame and the absolute cheapest and nastiest components I have ever seen on a bike. It weighed 12kg with skinny tyres, no mudguards.

Compared with the 531 framed singlespeed I was using at the time was like day and night. The 531 was light and responsive, the State was harsh and heavy.

 

[fritz katzenjammer]

State makes some very pretty bikes at nice prices and I was tempted when I first saw them. ( us Canadians can get up here in the Great White North eh ) I’m glad I didn’t. One came through our shop for a tune up a year or so ago and while it looked great sitting in the racks I was amazed at just how cheap all of the components were. Nicely finished and functional, sure, but cheap! My biggest concern were the hubs, I’d bet that you’d end up overhauling them about one week after the warrantee was up. The one that came through our shop was fairly new but needed some bearings already.

You’d be far better finding an old steel roadbike and refitting it. It would likely cost the same by the time you were done ( mine did! ) but it would last a lot longer.

cool bikes for the fixie beatnik crowd.

Canada has its own version… Moose Bicycles. I’ve seen one and it was the same story. Pretty paint on a basic steampipe frame fitted with the same shiney but cheap components.

nice toys but not working bikes.

 

[Drago]

That bike had a 'sturdy' steel frame and the absolute cheapest and nastiest components I have ever seen on a bike. It weighed 12kg with skinny tyres, no mudguards.

A bit of a state, you might say?

 

[wafter]

When I bought my Kona Sutra LTD it came with a cheap chromoly steel frame. Kona's philosophie was contrary to what I'd come across before, namely build a good, but cheap frame and deck it out with expensive components, thereby keeping the overall cost to the consumer low.

I went straight from a Reynolds 531ST framed Dawes Galaxy to this bike and I must admit to being blown away by the frame. My initial scepticism was completely unfounded, it was stiff but lively soaking up all of the buzz and vibration from the trails with ease. I was running the same tires initially on the Kona as I was using on the Galaxy so I felt it was definitely a fair comparison. It certainly changed my view of not only unbranded Chromoly steel frames, but of. the Reynolds frame as well.

One point I would disagree on though, with your assessment of the State bike, is the Flat mount brake standard. In my view the IS mount on this bike is superior to flat mount. With IS mount's you can run a IS to Post mount converter which allows you to not only run any post mount brakes, but you can also easily change the size of your brakes easily. From an engineering point of view I find them much better than flat mount and I'm glad my bike has them because I was able to easily convert my front brake to 180mm rotors. If we're talking aesthetics though, I do agree they can look a bit messy compared to the more elegant flat mount.

Overall though they do look interesting bikes that look very similar to my Kona, albeit with a much more budget groupset and good value for money as you say.

Thanks - that's an interesting perspective. I do often wonder about expensive tubesets... in isolation I can completely appreciate the argument for "stronger = thinner = more flexible = nicer ride" however I do wonder how much vertical compliance there is in a steel frame compared to that present in the tyres; which surely must deflect orders of magnitude more.

That said my Routier is finest gas pipe and is a bit of a bone-shaker; especially before I replaced the steel rims with ally items.. so there's likely something in it.

I've always thought it would be interesting to do a blind test between Genesis CdF frames from opposite ends of their range - their propriatory Cr-Mo at one end and 853 at the other.. differing axle and brake standards notwithstanding you could otherwise build the bikes up to be pretty much identical in terms of spec.

I must admit that a lot of my affinity for flat mount is the clean aesthetics; the standard apparently arising from a desire to appease the aero monster on road bikes. I think post is an outgoing standard while IS is still the standard on MTBs (so I guess there's also some argument there for compatability and range).. I think you can easily space out flat-mount calipers to suit bigger discs

Id be very cautious of anything from State without being able to see it and try it first.

Coming up to 5 years ago I did up a State singlespeed bike. There's a thread on CC about it.

That bike had a 'sturdy' steel frame and the absolute cheapest and nastiest components I have ever seen on a bike. It weighed 12kg with skinny tyres, no mudguards.

Compared with the 531 framed singlespeed I was using at the time was like day and night. The 531 was light and responsive, the State was harsh and heavy.

Thanks and sorry to hear that; I'll seek out that thread to maybe make myself feel better about my inability to source one of these without re-mortgaging a kidney

I suppose the components are always going to be cheap at this price point, while to be fair I think off-brand stuff has come a long way recently and a lot of the chinese challenger brands are getting quite a bit of traction; for what that's worth.

Granted there's rarely such a thing as a free lunch although I'd still be interested to try one of these

State makes some very pretty bikes at nice prices and I was tempted when I first saw them. ( us Canadians can get up here in the Great White North eh ) I’m glad I didn’t. One came through our shop for a tune up a year or so ago and while it looked great sitting in the racks I was amazed at just how cheap all of the components were. Nicely finished and functional, sure, but cheap! My biggest concern were the hubs, I’d bet that you’d end up overhauling them about one week after the warrantee was up. The one that came through our shop was fairly new but needed some bearings already.

You’d be far better finding an old steel roadbike and refitting it. It would likely cost the same by the time you were done ( mine did! ) but it would last a lot longer.

cool bikes for the fixie beatnik crowd.

Canada has its own version… Moose Bicycles. I’ve seen one and it was the same story. Pretty paint on a basic steampipe frame fitted with the same shiney but cheap components.

nice toys but not working bikes.

That's a shame although again, at this price point I suppose components are always going to be low-end. Really my interest would be in the frame for a starting point to build up with decent discounted / used bits.

I appreciate your point re. and old frame and all things being equal this would be my preferred route; however sadly I've become corrupted by the modern trappings of through-axles and disc brakes, so ideally anything else I might purchase (especially for daily use in all weathers) would have this spec.

Not to worry - seems like a moot point for those of us in the UK anyway!

 

[Drago]

The bike here has a 4130 frame. Now, 4130 cro mo itself has similar mechanical properties to 531 so like-for-like will feel similar, usually for less money.

The key bit is like-for-like. If its double butted and slimmed down to 0.6mm on the tube centres it'll feel like a nice 531 frame. If it's thick walled plain gauge it'll behave and feel like a BSO.

The article doesn't explicity state the nature of the tubeset beyond the material, so who really knows in this instance?

 

[Emanresu]

Unfortunately while State have a UK-facing website it appears they have no UK distributer and everything is shipped directly from the US. I was very tempted by a phosphor all road frame as the basis of a utility hack and while the £368 price quoted seemed keen, it nearly doubled when shipping costs were added

If you want one , adopt a Canadian.

Some Canuks I've come across who cycle in Spain can bring their bikes on the flight for $50. Amazing value.

 

[chriswoody]

The bike here has a 4130 frame. Now, 4130 cro mo itself has similar mechanical properties to 531 so like-for-like will feel similar, usually for less money.

The key bit is like-for-like. If its double butted and slimmed down to 0.6mm on the tube centres it'll feel like a nice 531 frame. If it's thick walled plain gauge it'll behave and feel like a BSO.

The article doesn't explicity state the nature of the tubeset beyond the material, so who really knows in this instance?

This is also the problem with my musings above. All I know is that my Kona has a "Kona Chromoly steel frame" which is pretty useless as a description it tells you nothing of its properties. The fact that, in my mind, it rides much better than the 531ST frame on my Galaxy is a surprise, but equally I've no way of knowing it's actually properties. The primary way in which the frames differ is that the Kona frame tubes have a much larger diameter which makes it much stiffer than the Reynolds frame. No doubt though it's also heavier, but I've never weighed the frame on it's own. Flicking the tubes with my fingers suggests it's double butted but who knows? It also means that no comparison can be drawn with other chromoly steel framed bikes like this State gravel bike.

There is something to be said for labelling a frame with a name like 531ST, because then it gives you a known reference point for comparisons.

I think you can easily space out flat-mount calipers to suit bigger discs

There are flat-mount adapters to upsize your discs, but only if the frame will take it and even then the vast majority top out at 160mm. There are one or two adapters on the market for 180mm, but they come with huge warnings that you use them at your own risk because the forks may not be strong enough. All of this makes sense when you consider flat mount is primarily designed for road bikes and really 160mm should be more than sufficient for stopping a lightweight bike on road.

Where larger discs come in useful is off road and when loaded up. Adventure orientated Gravel bikes, in my opinion, really should ideally come with post mount or IS brake mounts to allow for easier installation of larger discs if, like me, the owner needs it.

IS is actually the outgoing standard and post mount is the newer standard. I need an adapter to fit to my IS mounts to convert them to Post mount so that I can mount the caliper. So technically while I was defending IS mounts above, really it's post mount that is in my mind the best standard, but IS can be converted simply.

 

[wafter]

There are flat-mount adapters to upsize your discs, but only if the frame will take it and even then the vast majority top out at 160mm. There are one or two adapters on the market for 180mm, but they come with huge warnings that you use them at your own risk because the forks may not be strong enough. All of this makes sense when you consider flat mount is primarily designed for road bikes and really 160mm should be more than sufficient for stopping a lightweight bike on road.

Where larger discs come in useful is off road and when loaded up. Adventure orientated Gravel bikes, in my opinion, really should ideally come with post mount or IS brake mounts to allow for easier installation of larger discs if, like me, the owner needs it.

IS is actually the outgoing standard and post mount is the newer standard. I need an adapter to fit to my IS mounts to convert them to Post mount so that I can mount the caliper. So technically while I was defending IS mounts above, really it's post mount that is in my mind the best standard, but IS can be converted simply.

Cheers - wasn't aware of most of that! I've certainly found the 160mm discs on the CdF absolutely all I need, althought granted that only has to contend with my (no inconsiderable) bulk. Are you running cable-actuated discs on yours? I suspect hydraulics would lessen the need to go bigger on the discs given their greater bite.. although they're probably still not going to cool as well as larger diameter items.

Ta for setting me straight about IS / Post - turns out my newish MTB has the latter. Really the only problem I have with this standard is the aesthetic, which leaves a bit to be desired! I guess that makes it all the more surprising that Genesis continue to use IS on the lower-end CdF when they already have flat mount frames available (granted these may cost more) and all of the road / gravel-centric groupsets relevant to their bikes are now all flat mount.

 

[chriswoody]

Are you running cable-actuated discs on yours? I suspect hydraulics would lessen the need to go bigger on the discs given their greater bite.. although they're probably still not going to cool as well as larger diameter items.

I'm actually running hydraulics on mine, I've upgraded the gravel bike to run 4 piston Hope RX4 calipers and 180mm discs. I will say that this is complete overkill for 80% of my riding, but when I'm away bikepacking and running down some long sketchy mountainous descents I really appreciate the set up.

I made the change for two reasons really, the original 2 piston SRAM calipers developed a leak during the middle of the pandemic and spares were unobtanium. So I thought what the heck and for a few Euros more than replacement Rival calipers I bought the vastly superior Hope ones. Then fast forward a few years and descending down a long rough gravel descent whilst bikepacking, the front brakes were getting really hot and a little fade was starting to creep in. I discovered how easy and cheap it was to upgrade from 160mm to 180mm, so I thought why not.

Day to day, I find the brakes are fantastic, really nicely modulated and easy to operate from the hoods, but the power is there if I really need it. On long bikepacking trips I have a lot of confidence now as well to go for big descents knowing the brakes will see me through.

It is odd that Genesis continue to fit IS mounts to their cheaper frames, given that adapters will need to be fitted to convert them to post mount, why don't they just fit post mounts straight away or more logically keep the flat mounts from the more expensive frames? Even Kona have moved away from IS mounts, I think from the 2018 model year of the Sutra LTD they went to flat mount from IS mounts.