Saving an old Brookes saddle?

[Cyclopathic]

I've inherited an old Brookes saddle but it is very dried out and also flares out at the sides a bit or a lot really. The cage and springs are a bit rusty but I can deal with that. How do I go about feeding it and making it lovely and ready to be shaped anew to my backside?

 

[Baggy]

You don't want to over-soften it, so I'd suggest giving it a good coat of Proofide underneath and leaving it to soak in, and a thinner application on top. If it's still brittle, give it another coat.

I've seen some people deal with the splayed edges by lacing - punching holes along the "hem" and then threading through a piece of leather thonging and pulling it tight until it's the shape you want. If you google for images of brooks lacing it will come up with loads of stuff.

I would steer clear of neatsfoot oil/saddle soap etc as they will make it too soft, too quickly.

 

[Cyclopathic]

You don't want to over-soften it, so I'd suggest giving it a good coat of Proofide underneath and leaving it to soak in, and a thinner application on top. If it's still brittle, give it another coat.

I've seen some people deal with the splayed edges by lacing - punching holes along the "hem" and then threading through a piece of leather thonging and pulling it tight until it's the shape you want. If you google for images of brooks lacing it will come up with loads of stuff.

I would steer clear of neatsfoot oil/saddle soap etc as they will make it too soft, too quickly.

Thanks. I had been wondering just exactly how I'd be able to feed it without then getting the substance all over me when I used it. Of course, put it on the inside. Now you've said it it seems so obvious. Again I thank you and my trousers thank you.

 

[Baggy]

I thank you and my trousers thank you.

You and your trousers are welcome
If you also apply a thin smear on top it should soak in quickly, and any that hasn't will rub off with a soft cloth.

 

[gwhite]

I wouldn't use Proofide as this could soften the saddle too much. If you can get old of some leather conditioner, such as "Hydrophane", then this would do the job but again, no too much. The Flaring could be taken care of by creating holes in the edge of the saddle and using a leather thong or lace to pull the sides together. This is an old method which is now used on the new Brooks Imperial. There should be plenty info on how to do this if you Google for it.

 

[Baggy]

I wouldn't use Proofide as this could soften the saddle too much. If you can get old of some leather conditioner, such as "Hydrophane", then this would do the job but again, no too much.

There's loads of debate about this online!
Personally I think Hydrophane is more likely to over-soften the saddle than Proofide - it's primary use is to keep leather soft and supple and it's difficult to apply in moderation as it soaks in so quickly.

 

[gwhite]

There's loads of debate about this online!
Personally I think Hydrophane is more likely to over-soften the saddle than Proofide - it's primary use is to keep leather soft and supple and it's difficult to apply in moderation as it soaks in so quickly.

It's not difficult at all and I've lost count of the number of leather saddles I've conditioned using this product. One coat with probably more around the rivets, will certainly not over-soften. Most of the debate you speak of, involves people with plenty of theories but with little experience.

 

[PpPete]

I'm not familiar with Hydrophane, but I'm baffled as to why anyone would to use anything other than Proofhide. It is, after all, what Brooks recommend, and have done for generation.

 

[gwhite]

I'm not familiar with Hydrophane, but I'm baffled as to why anyone would to use anything other than Proofhide. It is, after all, what Brooks recommend, and have done for generation.

Proofide is basically a wax with some Citronella and vegetable oil added. Originally Brooks recommended that this be used only on the topside of the saddle which provided a modicum of waterproofing to the top rolled finish. The new company expanded sales to the USA where cyclists did not use mudguards and wanted underside protection of their saddles. Brookes responded with the recommendation of applying Proofide to the underside but this will eventually soften the leather. Hydrophane is a conditioner used by Saddlers in order to prepare the Butt of leather for cutting and shaping. Used in moderation it will provide a good amount of waterproofing but perhaps more importantly, it will prevent the cracking and splitting which comes as the saddle ages. Sadly, the moulding process used to shape the saddle over the former, means that the natural oils present in leather are leached out and lost which is why your new saddle feels as hard as wood.

 

[Cyclopathic]

Come on guys, I've had some really useful tips and I think I'll go with the Proofide option. It's not worth getting hot under the collar about. Thanks to all of you for your input on this. I'm glad I found this site.

 

[PpPete]

Far from hot under the collar...! you should see some of the discussions elsewhere.

gwhite obviously has some strongly held views on this ... we are just trying to find out the basis of the views.

Like Cyclopathic, I have learned one hell of a lot from this site, but I'd be the first to admit that I don't know everything.

so - to continue the debate... and with emphasis that this is no way a personal attack, I do genuinely do want to understand where gwhite is coming from....

Proofide is basically a wax with some Citronella and vegetable oil added. Originally Brooks recommended that this be used only on the topside of the saddle which provided a modicum of waterproofing to the top rolled finish.

yes I remember this - I never put it on the bottom of my first Brooks

The new company expanded sales to the USA where cyclists did not use mudguards and wanted underside protection of their saddles. Brookes responded with the recommendation of applying Proofide to the underside but this will eventually soften the leather.

some softening is surely necessary - how will it mould to your a$$ otherwise ?

Hydrophane is a conditioner used by Saddlers in order to prepare the Butt of leather for cutting and shaping.

how does it prepare the leather for shaping without softening it ?

Used in moderation it will provide a good amount of waterproofing but perhaps more importantly, it will prevent the cracking and splitting which comes as the saddle ages.

So does Proofhide ?

Sadly, the moulding process used to shape the saddle over the former, means that the natural oils present in leather are leached out and lost which is why your new saddle feels as hard as wood.

Yes - some sort of product is needed to replace the natural oils, but you've yet to convince me of the superiority of Hydrophane over Proofhide.

 

[gwhite]

Far from hot under the collar...! you should see some of the discussions elsewhere.

gwhite obviously has some strongly held views on this ... we are just trying to find out the basis of the views.

Like Cyclopathic, I have learned one hell of a lot from this site, but I'd be the first to admit that I don't know everything.

so - to continue the debate... and with emphasis that this is no way a personal attack, I do genuinely do want to understand where gwhite is coming from....



yes I remember this - I never put it on the bottom of my first Brooks



some softening is surely necessary - how will it mould to your a$ otherwise ?



how does it prepare the leather for shaping without softening it ?



So does Proofhide ?



Yes - some sort of product is needed to replace the natural oils, but you've yet to convince me of the superiority of Hydrophane over Proofhide.

Nothing wrong with profiting from the experience of others, and I see no evidence of anyone becoming angry.

"some softening is surely necessary - how will it mould to your a$ otherwise ?"
Brooks will say that the saddle should not become soft. They say that by riding it you will create indents for your sit-bones, but this needs untreated leather so that the leather fibres break with the pressure creating indents. (Actually it's easier to wet the leather and the indents can be made with one's thumb with the leather drying out to be as hard as before.)
"how does it prepare the leather for shaping without softening it ?"
It does have softening effect, but the right amount does not over-soften and will prevent drying out and cracking over time.

"So does Proofhide ? "
It provides only a temporary waterproofing at best as it does not penetrate the top surface which has been "rolled" to give a smooth finish.
Easily checked if you scratch the top surface.

 

[tyred]

I'm going to suggest two things to use on leather which may seem of the wall but will work perfectly and chances are, the OP has some in his home already.

Vaseline. Rub it in with a cloth, allow to dry and then buff off the excess. Works a treat.

Shaving soap. A traditional one, (not a canned foam or gel) preferably with tallow but glycerine based is fine. Just use it to wash the saddle as you would do with any other soap and dry it off when finished. Remember that both proofhide and saddle soap are tallow based and that Palmolive shaving soap is 49p in Tescos.

 

[PpPete]

Nothing wrong with profiting from the experience of others, and I see no evidence of anyone becoming angry.

"some softening is surely necessary - how will it mould to your a$ otherwise ?"
Brooks will say that the saddle should not become soft. They say that by riding it you will create indents for your sit-bones, but this needs untreated leather so that the leather fibres break with the pressure creating indents. (Actually it's easier to wet the leather and the indents can be made with one's thumb with the leather drying out to be as hard as before.)
"how does it prepare the leather for shaping without softening it ?"
It does have softening effect, but the right amount does not over-soften and will prevent drying out and cracking over time.

"So does Proofhide ? "
It provides only a temporary waterproofing at best as it does not penetrate the top surface which has been "rolled" to give a smooth finish.
Easily checked if you scratch the top surface.

So is Hydrophane a permanent waterproofing then ?

 

[Baggy]

This is even better than Campag v Shimano

So is Hydrophane a permanent waterproofing then ?

In my experience, no, but it does soak right in so the waterproofing lasts longer. I agree Proofide doesn't really penetrate below the surface - the ingredients in Proofide (tallow, cod oil, vegetable oil, paraffin wax, beeswax & citronella oil) won't soak in as readily (though I've heard tales of sticking your saddle in the airing cupboard to make it soak in further!).

I've got far more experience of horse-tack than I have of Brooks saddles - used Hydrophane for years to soften up and condition leather horse-tack, which is pretty stiff when it's new - oiling it is of the first things that's recommended.

Granted, you'd put Hydrophane (or neatsfoot etc) on to horse-related leather more often than you'd put anything on to a Brooks, but if you do it too often it can over-soften, hence I'd be extremely cautious of using it on an older bike saddle that's already been broken and will have fibres that are already stretched.

We have managed to kill one Brooks by over application of Proofide over about 6 years - it went a bit saggy and we then committed the cardinal sin of tightening the nose-bolt...