Saddle Position: Higher or Lower?!!?

[knapdog]

Have bought a 56cm frame Secteur Elite and I love it, having been used to, previously, a hybrid. I'm 5'9.5" and have a 30" inside leg measurement (though the "stand against the wall, book under the crotch" figure comes out at 31.5").
I'm trying to calculate the ideal saddle position and I'm having some problems:
I've started out using the heel of the foot, with straight leg and shoes on and find that this method is way too high for the a).LeMond, 0.883 x inside leg measurement = top of saddle to the bottom bracket, and the .1.09% of inside leg measurement = top of saddle to the pedal axle calculations.
Using the saddle position for the heel of the foot method also gives me a 30degree angle below the knee when I pedal on the ball of my foot. So two methods are O.K. and two are not!
In addition, even with my saddle as far back as it will go, the plumbline method of dropping a line from my knee, at the horizontal crank position, comes to about 1 to 2cm in front of the pedal axle, instead of in line with it.
Any thoughts as to what may be wrong (if anything?) It's certainly too late to change my bike!!

 

[accountantpete]

In my opinion there's no such thing as a general "ideal position" - it depends on your riding style and what you feel comfortable with.

For me an approx 20 degree angle below the knee when the pedal is at the lowest point and the foot is horizontal is a starting point and then I just adjust it and the seat position to feel comfy.

If you look at the pro's they vary the angle of the foot and position in the seat quite a bit during a ride and of course some pro's prefer a relatively lower seat position than others.

So it's a bit of trial and error until you find the position that suits you.

 

[Davidc]

I agree with accountantpete, I start off using the standard positions and then adjust bit by bit for maximum comfort, which seems to be the same as for maximum power.

I would add that a few mm fore or aft can make a big difference to comfort too, and that although now difficult to adjust handlebar height can make a difference.

 

[Fab Foodie]

Hope this helps...
http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.htm

It's the best set-up guide written I reckon. Don't get too hung-up on methodology as everybody is arranged slightly differently. The point is firstly to get a decent balanced seating position and then adjust the bars to suit. You may for example need a seatpost with more layback for example, but you need to start somewhere, do some rides and then start the micro-tweaking, you'll soon recognise when you're producing more power and have more comfort, but sometimes it takes time to dial in the sweet-spot.

 

[knapdog]

Thanks Fab Foodie,
The article is very interesting. I shall start tweaking tomorrow!!!!!!!!!!!!
knapdog

 

[Randochap]

Don't worry about KOPS. Read this and try to get overall balance and comfort right.

If you are comfortable, everything else will follow.

 

[singapore_rider]

When you are seated on the bike in motion, both your feet should not reach the ground. Your upper and lower leg should be slightly bent when your foot is on the pedal at 5 pm position.

A stationary cyclist who manages to put one feet on the ground when seated on the saddle is having too low a seat height.

You also have to learn to move your butt forward away from saddle when stopping or move back butt to saddle after moving off. That is why there must be sufficient clearance from the crossbar to your underparts when you are standing over the crossbar.

 

[Cubist]

When you are seated on the bike in motion, both your feet should not reach the ground. Your upper and lower leg should be slightly bent when your foot is on the pedal at 5 pm position.

A stationary cyclist who manages to put one feet on the ground when seated on the saddle is having too low a seat height.

You also have to learn to move your butt forward away from saddle when stopping or move back butt to saddle after moving off. That is why there must be sufficient clearance from the crossbar to your underparts when you are standing over the crossbar.

Welcome Singapore rider! Good basic advice there.

By the way, do you work for a flatpack furniture manufacturer by any chance?

 

[zacklaws]

Reading your post, I understand your doing the heel of foot with a straight leg with your shoe on, my understanding of that method is you should not have your shoe on, so that when you do put your shoe on it will give you a slight bend in your knee.

Also check when you do the plumbline method that you are actually on flat ground otherwise your measurements will be out, and also your bike is level itself whilst seated, for instance your tyre pressures may be different causing it to become unlevel when you sit on the saddle and put weight on your tyres. The ground would not have to be unlevel that much to put you out by a centimetre or two.

The ideal saddle position to me is one whereby I can do a long ride, and have no pains in my neck, back, knee's or legs or anywhere else during or after the ride. Initially I found that I would move my saddle position with quite big movements but in the end I found that by just tweaking it by a millimetre or two made the real difference.

 

[Randochap]

my understanding of that method is you should not have your shoe on, so that when you do put your shoe on it will give you a slight bend in your knee.

There should be a bend in the leg (around 30 degrees) when actually riding. Therefore, assuming one rides wearing shoes, the "heel on pedal" method should be undertaken wearing shoes.

Keep in mind, however, that this (and all formulas) are a ballpark method. Only your own riding style and body feedback will dictate final position.

Don't get too caught up in the KOPS canard and, if I may offer again, reading this should clear up some of the confusion.

 

[bicyclerubber]

Have a look at this video and read this document - between them they will give you an overview of the basics of bike fitting. Its a deep subject and its astounding what difference a couple of mm can make