Rubbish ability to climb out of the saddle

[Mr_K_Dilkington]

A bit of background on me. I've only been cycling for a couple of months (after years of absolutely no exercise to speak of), but have seen pretty good improvements with the cycling. Just to give an idea of my overall abilities - I can lap Richmond Park in 21:47 (http://www.strava.com/activities/124932137) and today did an 80 mile ride from Reading to West London with 4,203 feet of climbing at an average speed of 14.5mph (http://www.strava.com/activities/125377534).

My question is about climbing using the power of my legs, specifically climbing out of the saddle.

One thing I'm quite aware of at this point is my really shoddy ability to climb when put of the saddle (on longish or fairly steep climbs at least). I can sit down and plug away at climbs no problem, but trying to get some power down out of the saddle, to mix things up using different muscle groups or to emphasise the power in my legs over my cardiovascular system for a while is just not a pretty sight.

I'll shift up a couple of gears on the rear sprocket as I get out of the saddle to try and give it some, but my legs fade really quickly. Even on the lower gears, I can't maintain much time out of the saddle, whereas I can sit down and plug away at the climb without too much problem.

Even in the saddle, I feel like the strength on my legs holds me back long before my breathing and heart rate is really red lining it.

How would I train to be better at this (and generally to have more strength in the legs when climbing)?

Simply climb more hills? High resistance, high intensity interval training? Something else?

 

[vickster]

Squats apparently help. But learn to do them properly so you don't bugger your knees

 

[Mr_K_Dilkington]

Squats apparently help. But learn to do them properly so you don't bugger your knees

Any idea what I should be going for with squatting? Just bodyweight sqauts with high reps? Heavy weight and low reps bodybuilder or powerlifted style? Or something in between?

 

[Hacienda71]

Ride more hills, lose a bit of weight, make sure you are in the right gear. If you are finding a gear too big when standing on the pedals change down a gear.
You could do hill reps. Find a hill say half a mile long, ride up it close to full effort and freewheel down, then repeat two or three times.

 

[Mr_K_Dilkington]

Ride more hills, lose a bit of weight, make sure you are in the right gear. If you are finding a gear too big when standing on the pedals change down a gear.
You could do hill reps. Find a hill say half a mile long, ride up it close to full effort and freewheel down, then repeat two or three times.

Cool, I'll definitely be riding more hills and doing some hill reps. Gears I don't think are an issue - I've tried with a variety of gears and still been pretty poor at climbing out of the saddle. Don't have too much weight to lose unfortunately (or fortunately depending on how you look at it) - I'm already sporting the Chris Froome lanky streak of piss look

 

[helston90]

Unfortunately the cycle goes: ride more hills, loose more weight, so you get better at hills, so you ride more hills etc.
It's hard- it hurts (it'll always hurt) but you've always got the decent to look forward to- short of buying your way to the lightest bike you can find there's not quick and easy cheat for this.

 

[Hacienda71]

Also my experience is out of the saddle is more efficient on steeper bits of climbs say +10% but a bit of a waste of time for me on the draggy 5 to 7% sections where I find myself much faster getting into a good rhythm seated. I suspect each individual finds their own preference though.

 

[ColinJ]

If your cardiovascular system is not redlining then you should be able to try harder.

If you are struggling to turn the cranks round then you are overgeared for your current level of fitness.

If you are not struggling to turn the cranks round then what is the problem? Are you sure it isn't really that your back muscles are not up to the job?

 

[marzjennings]

Hill or flats, pedaling is pedaling. Just increase you average road speed and therefore your power output. The more power you can produce on the flat, the more you'll have for climbing. E.g. if your of average size and have a average speed of 15.5mph then you're producing about 120watts of power. That 120watts is only going to propel you at walking pace up a 10% incline. (numbers from this power calc... http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm)

Just ride faster, start producing more watts and the climbing will get easier.

FYI, unless you plan to ride track, leave out the squats.

I

 

[Mr_K_Dilkington]

If your cardiovascular system is not redlining then you should be able to try harder.

If you are struggling to turn the cranks round then you are overgeared for your current level of fitness.

If you are not struggling to turn the cranks round then what is the problem? Are you sure it isn't really that your back muscles are not up to the job?

I'm not sure tbh. Looking at my heart rate data, I'm getting to the high 170s and 180s over fairly long periods of time on climbs, which is pretty high right (for a 27 year old guy)?

I just always feel like my legs are knackered but my heart/lungs still have more to give and aren't being pushed to the max like they might when I'm running or swimming really hard.

 

[Mr_K_Dilkington]

If your cardiovascular system is not redlining then you should be able to try harder.

If you are struggling to turn the cranks round then you are overgeared for your current level of fitness.

If you are not struggling to turn the cranks round then what is the problem? Are you sure it isn't really that your back muscles are not up to the job?

I do have quite weak back and core muscles overall (at least lower back) and really bad posture, tensing to slouch a lot and get quite a tired back on longer rides.

Does strengthening your back help climbing?

 

[MontyVeda]

Squats apparently help. But learn to do them properly so you don't bugger your knees

bad advice... the tories outlawed it.

 

[ColinJ]

I do have quite weak back and core muscles overall (at least lower back) and really bad posture, tensing to slouch a lot and get quite a tired back on longer rides.

I am the same!

Does strengthening your back help climbing?

TBH - I haven't tried yet, but on yesterday's forum ride my heart, lungs and legs felt ok, but the steep hills were making my back ache. It is nearly always my back that gives up first, so that is what I am going to focus on.

I found in the past that cycling a lot got my legs and CV system fit long before my back did, so I am going to try doing some core/back exercises as well as cycling.

 

[nickyboy]

I do have quite weak back and core muscles overall (at least lower back) and really bad posture, tensing to slouch a lot and get quite a tired back on longer rides.

Does strengthening your back help climbing?

Yes it does, inasmuch as your core strength will help out of the saddle efforts.

@Hacienda71 got it spot on. The most efficient way to climb hills where the cardiovascular system is the limitation is in the saddle. Apparently the issue is the raising and rocking of the pelvis out of the saddle that is the problem. So on longer hills (which for me is more than about 400m) you sit, and maybe temporarily relieve the muscles by getting out of the saddle. On shorter, steep hills get out of the saddle as this allows for more watts but is less efficient and you can't keep it up for long. I can do a couple of minutes out of the saddle then I'm goosed

 

[MikeG]

.........One thing I'm quite aware of at this point is my really shoddy ability to climb when put of the saddle (on longish or fairly steep climbs at least). I can sit down and plug away at climbs no problem, but trying to get some power down out of the saddle, to mix things up using different muscle groups or to emphasise the power in my legs over my cardiovascular system for a while is just not a pretty sight...........

Well don't do it then.

There really is no point trying to do something which is of questionable benefit anyway. The pro-riders are sitting more and more, as they finally start listening to the sports scientists who have been telling them for years that sitting is more efficient. I was first home in a hilly audax this weekend without ever standing on the pedals. It just isn't necessary, and nor is it any quicker than sitting down.