Road v Turbo

[Stu Smith]

Why do I feel like I'm having to put more effort into my turbo sessions to get less out...

Typical 2 Hours out on the road (Hilly North West ) average 15 - 16.5 mph Average elevation gain around 2,500 ft.
Average heart rate 150BPM..
Average cadence 95

Typical Turbo session not including interval training just the time on bike training when the weather as been to inclement to get out..
2 Hour session. 13.8 - 15 mph
Average heart rate 144 BPM
Average cadence 85
Does look like I'm putting more effort into the road sessions, but it feels like I'm having to put more effort in on the turbo to get less averages??

 

[Herzog]

Lack of efficient cooling, increased percieved effort, boredom...

Consider that average speeds on turbo and road aren't really comparable.

 

[screenman]

They are not like for like.

 

[Stu Smith]

They are not like for like.

Giving they are not like for like, which 2 hour session would expend more energy..

 

[HLaB]

Giving they are not like for like, which 2 hour session would expend more energy..

Its not as simple as that; road conditions, profiles, turbo resistance sessions etc come into it.

 

[LimeBurn]

I find the opposite - I can't seem to put out the same effort or cadence on the road that I can on the turbo. Although I can have a hard workout on the turbo looking at average HR it feels easier than if I had the same average HR on the road. I also find that the same 90rpm that I can comfortably sustain on the turbo just doesn't equate to the same experience on the road, on average I'm down to maybe 75 Maybe gradients are just not my thing

 

[Stu Smith]

Its not as simple as that; road conditions, profiles, turbo resistance sessions etc come into it.

I can understand that.
But why would I feel more fatigued on the turbo when my heart rate is slower, my cadence is slower and my average speed is slower. On what is just really a flat ride on the turbo, resistance set to 4 on a 1 -10 scale.
Apologies if I'm coming across as stupid but I can not understand it.

 

[HLaB]

I can understand that.
But why would I feel more fatigued on the turbo when my heart rate is slower, my cadence is slower and my average speed is slower. On what is just really a flat ride on the turbo, resistance set to 4 on a 1 -10 scale.
Apologies if I'm coming across as stupid but I can not understand it.

The first reply sums it up

Lack of efficient cooling, increased percieved effort, boredom...

 

[Rob3rt]

Good old averages...

There are a myriad of reasons why percieved or in fact actual levels of exertion may vary between the two. 1st thing though, is forget about comparing using average HR or speed, that is an exercise in futility.

The reason average HR is a useless metric for this comparison is as such, if you ride at a constant effort on the turbo trainer, your HR will remain within a small band of heart rate values, probably rising gently as the session goes on and you start to get hot. On the road, there are many outside factors which will force your heart rate to vary much more, this will mean the average value is no longer a representation of the true intensity of the ride.

Speed is a useless metric since road speed and turbo speed for the same power rarely match. So you are simply not comparing like with like.

Add in the fact that on the turbo you get hot, which would increase perceived exertion and a load of other factors (static position, discomfort, boredom, varying degrees of flywheel effect etc) it is not at all surprising that you feel the turbo session is harder.

 

[screenman]

Giving they are not like for like, which 2 hour session would expend more energy..

Not sure but I know I get more out of myself on the turbo than I can the road if doing intervals. There is a discussion about just this topic going on in the time trial forum, by people far more knowledgeable than myself. Some saying turbo is worth 1.5 times road, I would say it depends what you are doing.

 

[Rob3rt]

Not sure but I know I get more out of myself on the turbo than I can the road if doing intervals. There is a discussion about just this topic going on in the time trial forum, by people far more knowledgeable than myself. Some saying turbo is worth 1.5 times road, I would say it depends what you are doing.

Isn't there always? Much like there is always a thread about power being lower in TT position, hah!

I can get more power out on the road, but can't work myself ragged in a safe way like I can on the turbo. Thing is, improving power on the turbo = improved power on the road, so even if the numbers don't tally.... who cares

 

[Stu Smith]

Good old averages...

There are a myriad of reasons why percieved or in fact actual levels of exertion may vary between the two. 1st thing though, is forget about comparing using average HR or speed, that is an exercise in futility.

The reason average HR is a useless metric for this comparison is as such, if you ride at a constant effort on the turbo trainer, your HR will remain within a small band of heart rate values, probably rising gently as the session goes on and you start to get hot. On the road, there are many outside factors which will force your heart rate to vary much more, this will mean the average value is no longer a representation of the true intensity of the ride.

Speed is a useless metric since road speed and turbo speed for the same power rarely match. So you are simply not comparing like with like.

Add in the fact that on the turbo you get hot, which would increase perceived exertion and a load of other factors (static position, discomfort, boredom, varying degrees of flywheel effect etc) it is not at all surprising that you feel the turbo session is harder.

Thank you Robert..
That explains clearly why my averages vary so much from Road to Turbo..
Thanks for your time. Much appreciated.

 

[Licramite]

Better music on the turbo - thats what you need.
I do find the aero position on the turbo bumps up the speed. - no not because of the arodynamic-resistance advantage - but it puts me in a more full on riding position.

but as at present I'm restricted to a max heart rate 140 I might as well stick a bloody armchair on it and have a nice cuppa tea whilst training

I certainly cannot emulate what I do on the turno on the road.(unless its downhill and a steep one at that.)

 

[maltloaf]

I ride my turbo and set my gear and the turbo resistance so I can maintain a training heart rate of around 150-160 bpm.
I do think turbo work is harder because it's constant. If you were to look at my heart rate graphs on the turbo they are essentially a straight line. The pressure is always there and the work is constant. If you stop working as hard the speed drops. This isn't necessarily what happens on the road.

On the road you are on the flat, uphill, sometimes resting downhill etc, so if you are maintaining a speed your heart rate will be varying and if you are maintaining a heart rate your speed will be varying.

That said road >> turbo for pure boredom factor IMHO.

 

[Stu Smith]

Better music on the turbo - thats what you need.
I do find the aero position on the turbo bumps up the speed. - no not because of the arodynamic-resistance advantage - but it puts me in a more full on riding position.

but as at present I'm restricted to a max heart rate 140 I might as well stick a bloody armchair on it and have a nice cuppa tea whilst training

I certainly cannot emulate what I do on the turno on the road.(unless its downhill and a steep one at that.)

Use CTX training videos from YouTube..